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Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

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Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#101

Post by TREYisRAD »

DanBC wrote: post #94
old-gregg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment. But allow me to disagree on comparing Gnome 2 to OSX. In my opinion old Gnome was exactly what you're talking about: "driving off the road". It wasn't like Windows or OSX, it was its own thing, the best desktop environment, in my opinion. The only element reminiscent of OSX (only visually, not functionally) perhaps was the menu at the top. Unity, on the other hand, is the exact replica of Gnome 3, just…

> Frankly, I'm not even sure it's possible to "drive off teh road to a new place" when it comes to desktop UX Sure it is. 3d file managers[1] never took off. With todays hardware they'd be a lot nicer to use. Users have been limited to quite small (sorry about my incorrect terminology here, I'm going to go read some man pages) total virtual screen size within which their windows were located. Now graphics cards, and…

Raskin sounds similar to what you describe for a "Zoomable UI".

http://www.raskinformac.com/

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#102

Post by DanBC »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #58

One of Paul's imperatives is to make a few people very happy rather than a lot of people kind of happy. That in mind, I think this is a good move for Canonical to move to Unity in 11.10. If people want the user-friendliness of GNOME, they can go to other linux distributions. But Canonical is doing well with open source technology - they've actually moved linux to something beyond the more savvy users and hackers - it…

> They can't directly compete with Apple and Microsoft, so experimenting with what Linux can be specialized in or how to make it unique are worth disappointing a few users,

To me this feels a bit like what Opera has churned through - first you pay; then you pay to get rid of ads (or not); then it's got great CSS (which is rigidly compliant but makes some sites look weird); then it's free; then it's got versions for mobile technology; then it's got social stuff built in; etc etc.

Opera is a great browser. Unfortunately, not many people know that it's a great browser, because they use IE or Safari or Ff or Chrome.

Facebook does get a lot of criticism from users when it changes UI. I think the difference is that you only read that if you're already using Facebook. All the furore about $LATEST_CHANGE_IN_OS is written on blogs, and that gets read by people trying to decide whether they're going to go for some Linux distribution.

Many Linux distributions aren't very good at "elevator pitches", and most users are too lazy to plough through a bunch of wiki pages to find out just why Mandriva is different from Mageia.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#103

Post by cma »

Alterlife wrote: post #47
dchest wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, this is absolutely unacceptable: Our goal is to give users a good search experience while funding ourselves by receiving a share of this income. Search engines who do not share the income generated by our users, are removed from Linux Mint and might get their ads blocked. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851

> Search engines who do not share the income generated by our users, are removed from Linux Mint and might get their ads blocked. Wow, that is insane... With that sort of mentality, the next logical step is to gain market monopoly, pre-install a version of adblock with custom filters, and start charging the entire Internet to show ads.

If Google blocked Mint Linux from its results in response, it wouldn't be much of a threat.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#104

Post by plain0x »

cletus wrote: post #81

It honestly boggles my mind that people can't read things like these and see that it's "choice" here that's why Linux on the desktop is doomed to be nothing more than a niche product for us geeks. Desktops succeed because they're consistent. Possibly the most important thing is to have a consistent API. X at this point is venerable. Nascent Linux desktops come complete with cruft. Lots of cruft. Honestly I can unders…

I can understand why Microsoft wants to start again (Windows 8) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Windows_8_Developer_Previe...

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#105

Post by ChuckMcM »

DanBC wrote: post #94
old-gregg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment. But allow me to disagree on comparing Gnome 2 to OSX. In my opinion old Gnome was exactly what you're talking about: "driving off the road". It wasn't like Windows or OSX, it was its own thing, the best desktop environment, in my opinion. The only element reminiscent of OSX (only visually, not functionally) perhaps was the menu at the top. Unity, on the other hand, is the exact replica of Gnome 3, just…

> Frankly, I'm not even sure it's possible to "drive off teh road to a new place" when it comes to desktop UX Sure it is. 3d file managers[1] never took off. With todays hardware they'd be a lot nicer to use. Users have been limited to quite small (sorry about my incorrect terminology here, I'm going to go read some man pages) total virtual screen size within which their windows were located. Now graphics cards, and…

I agree, its way easy to drive off the road. Not as easy to navigate the resulting underbrush.

Aza Raskin's THE stuff is pretty interesting in that regard, there are varieties of menu systems, where do menus appear, how do they appear? (I've always thought the pie menus were cool) And of course how do you switch between manipulating the space (app selection, desktop, themes) and manipulation within the app itself.

Strangely (for me at least) is that the Windows 8 previews have some interesting stuff in them (after years of not changing much) more interesting in concept than some of mainstream UIs on Linux. Again not that a tiling WM is particularly new but the blending of the icon/status bar presence/window/launcher feels pretty fresh.

I do run Kubuntu on my desktop but I continually try out different schemes with virtual machines when I can to see where things are going. My netbook runs XFCE which reminds me in a strange way of Suntools.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#106

Post by silon4 »

old-gregg wrote: post #83
ChuckMcM wrote: post #56

Personally I found it a bit snarky. By the same token I find that UI wars are the most vitriolic, after all they are the way you talk to the machine day in and day out. Screwing with that, screws with everything. I have found Ubuntu's strategy interesting because it seemed clear that while KDE was following general guidelines around Microsoft OSes to be more accessible, and Gnome was following general guidelines arou…

Great comment. But allow me to disagree on comparing Gnome 2 to OSX. In my opinion old Gnome was exactly what you're talking about: "driving off the road". It wasn't like Windows or OSX, it was its own thing, the best desktop environment, in my opinion. The only element reminiscent of OSX (only visually, not functionally) perhaps was the menu at the top. Unity, on the other hand, is the exact replica of Gnome 3, just…

>they're basically cloning OSX bad habits: instead of switching between windows on Alt+Tab they're now switching between apps (across virtual desktops!).

This is THE reason why I will not touch gnome-shell/unity. Too bad, because I could get used to most other stuff (except unity's menu bar on top) and I believe it has potential. Multiple displays and virtual deskops are a minor annoyance that can be improved.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#107

Post by wmf »

jolan wrote: post #79
ChuckMcM wrote: post #56

Personally I found it a bit snarky. By the same token I find that UI wars are the most vitriolic, after all they are the way you talk to the machine day in and day out. Screwing with that, screws with everything. I have found Ubuntu's strategy interesting because it seemed clear that while KDE was following general guidelines around Microsoft OSes to be more accessible, and Gnome was following general guidelines arou…

The GNOME/KDE development model is pretty strange. They release a new major version that changes everything so they spend years fixing and stabilizing, and then they release another major version and repeat the process. XFCE does a better job. "XFCE4" has been around for 7 years and they provide small improvements but don't make any radical changes. Unity was pushed out before it was ready. I understand the need to g…

They release a new major version that changes everything so they spend years fixing and stabilizing, and then they release another major version and repeat the process.

This is inevitable when you either set your sights too low (and after a while realize that your current architecture will never get you where you need to be) or develop too slowly (so by the time something is finished the market has moved on).

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#108

Post by pyre »

jolan wrote: post #79
ChuckMcM wrote: post #56

Personally I found it a bit snarky. By the same token I find that UI wars are the most vitriolic, after all they are the way you talk to the machine day in and day out. Screwing with that, screws with everything. I have found Ubuntu's strategy interesting because it seemed clear that while KDE was following general guidelines around Microsoft OSes to be more accessible, and Gnome was following general guidelines arou…

The GNOME/KDE development model is pretty strange. They release a new major version that changes everything so they spend years fixing and stabilizing, and then they release another major version and repeat the process. XFCE does a better job. "XFCE4" has been around for 7 years and they provide small improvements but don't make any radical changes. Unity was pushed out before it was ready. I understand the need to g…

  > Unity was pushed out before it was ready.
I think that this is the real rub here.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#109

Post by senko »

levesque wrote: post #76
udp wrote: post #27

> it’s Ubuntu without someone else telling you what to do or taking the OS into a direction that you’re unwilling to follow Debian, anyone?

I'm going for Debian, will try gnome shell to see how far it has come since it's beginnings and once I find out it sucks (most likely outcome) I will install XFCE.

I'm writing this on Debian Sid (unstable), which as of few weeks ago has GNOME 3. It works pretty well - has some quirks and bugs, but overall I think it's a great improvement over GNOME2. (This is on my main work computer).
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