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TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

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Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#431

Post by askafriend »

imgabe wrote: post #430
askafriend wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry about me. I work very hard, made it through difficult programs at top schools, made (and continue to make) significant contributions at leading companies and my compensation is probably top 0.01% in the world. I'm familiar with hard work and struggle, having come from nothing. In fact the only thing that was handed to me was values around education and how important it is - I still believe in that deeply.…

> create a place where people want to work and work hard towards goals they see as meaningful. If people don't see personal growth and a path to bettering their life or others' through work - what is the purpose of sacrifice and hard work? Working towards goals that are meaningful doesn't mean that you will be entertained and engaged with fun things to do all the time. Often quite the opposite. Personal growth and be…

I don't know where you got the words "entertained", "fun things to do all the time", or "spoon fed" from. I didn't use any of those words and I think we actually agree that meaningful things doesn't equate to parties all the time.

When I say engaged and meaningful - I mean it in the purest sense of the words, whereas you seem to equate it to "unserious".

Back to concrete questions: Are business leaders and educators presenting problems in a way that people connect with and see the value of? Are they providing an environment that makes people want to work hard and makes them feel empowered to take on difficult challenges?

Take History education for example. I'd say the answer to the above questions are "no".

* Most students who take a History class in a typical American school don't see how memorizing dates for tests connects to anything meaningful in their life or understanding of the world.

* I'd say educators don't or can't spend much time or effort connecting the dots or presenting information in a way that inspires people to ask deeper questions.

Instead, the focus is on rote memorization in preparation for flawed standardized state tests which themselves serve as the basis for obtaining federal funding to run the school itself.

Not to mention teachers themselves are underpaid and under-resourced while the students are forced to wake up at 6am (often not getting enough sleep) to catch the bus, sit in uncomfortable chairs for 8hrs a day with no agency, and then we're surprised that they're not excited by people talking at them all day?

Put another way, let's say you show up to a restaurant that serves shitty food, has a shitty environment, and the server get your order all wrong - you pay for this with your time and money. Do you think it's reasonable for the head chef to complain that customers are ungrateful and should be happy they got food at all? If the restaurant down the street takes the care to get all these things right, are customers entitled for choosing that restaurant every time instead?

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#432

Post by ergocoder »

baby wrote: post #415
ergocoder wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they will. Tiktok is a creator platform. More audience is better. Instagram has left a huge gap by forcing everyone to login. IMO, Instagram and Twitter are using the wrong metrics which ignore non-login users. They focus on converting users to logged-in. They don't focus on delivering maximum value. For downloading, I can see that go away though.

Twitter and reddit are doing this. I imagine youtube make it a pain to look at content as well if you’re not signed in

Reddit and YouTube don't require logging in.

When I say "not require logging in" means that there is a home feed with interesting content for non-logged in users

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#433

Post by nemo44x »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #424
nemo44x wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was careful in my wording to say the previous generation. It’s almost always uncool. For instance, 80’s music went out of style almost immediately when Nirvana came about. Then 10 or so years later some 80’s music was enjoyed ironically and now today the beat of it is preserved as “classic”. It’s OK for anyone to enjoy but it isn’t influential any longer.

I would add the distinction that the "classic" stuff can be cool, but with a caveat that they aren't enjoying it at the same time as the old-timers in the same venue . Retro 80's party with a bunch of twenty-somethings? Cool. Retro 80's party with a bunch of 50 year olds? Well, the young-in's wouldn't find that fun.

Right - the young people participate in the simulation of 1980’s culture and the 50 year olds in the reality. Although they use some of the same artifacts they are entirely different experiences.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#434

Post by unityByFreedom »

mrex wrote: post #282
unityByFreedom wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why you AREN'T afraid of this? I think the trick is to understand it, and once you realize what your choices are, then it's an easy decision not dictated by fear. That is, you either work towards a future where choice remains, or you concede choice until you have none left.

Reality is made of results, not intentions, so ultimately it's those that we're accountable for. This is one of the most considerable challenges for a species with such creativity, emotional drive, and long vision. I fear the results of a world where China's deliberate moves towards dominance are unopposed, or ineffectively opposed. Even if everyone has the right intentions as we face down that risk, it's the results…

The means create the ends, and the ends do not justify means, in my opinion. I disagree that the means, or intent as you say, is unimportant.

Your emotional reaction is a choice. You can choose to both not be afraid and still walk through fire, so to speak. Proactively exercising your right to free speech will set you on the path towards the ends you desire.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#435

Post by imgabe »

askafriend wrote: post #431
imgabe wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> create a place where people want to work and work hard towards goals they see as meaningful. If people don't see personal growth and a path to bettering their life or others' through work - what is the purpose of sacrifice and hard work? Working towards goals that are meaningful doesn't mean that you will be entertained and engaged with fun things to do all the time. Often quite the opposite. Personal growth and be…

I don't know where you got the words "entertained", "fun things to do all the time", or "spoon fed" from. I didn't use any of those words and I think we actually agree that meaningful things doesn't equate to parties all the time. When I say engaged and meaningful - I mean it in the purest sense of the words, whereas you seem to equate it to "unserious". Back to concrete questions: Are business leaders and educators…

Yes, it would be really nice if every teacher could be Robin Williams in Dead Poets Society or Joe Clark from Lean On Me but that just isn't the case and it isn't ever going to be the case.

Work is work and you can choose to engage yourself with it or not. Obviously, employers should not mistreat their employees, but ultimately they're all there to do whatever it is the business does and the point is to all succeed together as a business, not to nurture the personal growth of the employees.

If a server can't be bothered to make sure an order is correct the customer doesn't care whether the environment was sufficiently engaging or not, they only care about their order being right.

It's not that long ago that most people's "job" was growing enough food to survive. Nature didn't care if you found this fulfilling or engaging, you either did it or you starved. I can guarantee that if your life and your family's lives depended on growing enough potatoes to last through the winter, you'd be very interested and engaged in how to grow potatoes. It is an incredible luxury that we can even consider things like whether we feel engaged or meaning in our work.

There's meaning to be had in all honest work that serves a purpose. It's up to you to find it. If people are going to sit around and passively wait for someone to "inspire" them, they're either going to be very unsatisfied with their lives or fall prey to the first charismatic huckster that comes along. Nobody else can tell you how to find meaning in your life, you have to make it for yourself.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#436

Post by mrex »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #434
mrex wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality is made of results, not intentions, so ultimately it's those that we're accountable for. This is one of the most considerable challenges for a species with such creativity, emotional drive, and long vision. I fear the results of a world where China's deliberate moves towards dominance are unopposed, or ineffectively opposed. Even if everyone has the right intentions as we face down that risk, it's the results…

The means create the ends, and the ends do not justify means, in my opinion. I disagree that the means, or intent as you say, is unimportant. Your emotional reaction is a choice. You can choose to both not be afraid and still walk through fire, so to speak. Proactively exercising your right to free speech will set you on the path towards the ends you desire.

>You can choose to both not be afraid and still walk through fire, so to speak.

Fear is a healthy emotion, properly tempered. And it's an entirely rational response to a threat to my freedom and way of life. China is no less than that.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#437

Post by mrex »

SilverBirch wrote: post #334
mrex wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All these disputes are quite clearly about China being pissed off that the US is projecting power right on their doorstep. The South China Seas dispute is, in fact, primarily between China and a series of smaller nations like the Philippines and Japan. International governing bodies including an UNCLOS tribunal have consistently ruled against China's claims of sovereignty to open sea, but China keeps on doing it any…

I’m not defending China’s claims- they’re clearly fairly spurious and embedded in a fairly questionable end of WWII. The truth is it’s just a pretext for having a gateway from the South China Sea to the rest of the world- which I don’t think is particularly unreasonable as an aim. The question is why US war ships are 7000 miles from the mainland US, if I had to pick I would say that is far more imperialistic. And aga…

>The truth is it’s just a pretext for having a gateway from the South China Sea to the rest of the world- which I don’t think is particularly unreasonable as an aim.

But you're shifting around from principles to consequentialism. Suddenly, whatever rules China breaks, even if they are extremely serious ones to do with territorial control that underlie the peaceful international order we've enjoyed since WW2 ended, it's fine with you as long as it's in pursuit of an aim that you consider reasonable?

That's a fairly blank check, innit?

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#438

Post by unityByFreedom »

mrex wrote: post #436
unityByFreedom wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The means create the ends, and the ends do not justify means, in my opinion. I disagree that the means, or intent as you say, is unimportant. Your emotional reaction is a choice. You can choose to both not be afraid and still walk through fire, so to speak. Proactively exercising your right to free speech will set you on the path towards the ends you desire.

>You can choose to both not be afraid and still walk through fire, so to speak. Fear is a healthy emotion, properly tempered. And it's an entirely rational response to a threat to my freedom and way of life. China is no less than that.

> Fear is a healthy emotion, properly tempered. And it's an entirely rational response to a threat

Yes, and, expressing emotions helps us move beyond them. Holding onto them indefinitely is not necessary for them to be part of our experience.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#439

Post by derbOac »

WesleyJohnson wrote: post #281
ryandrake wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I check it out every few months or so when there's a new TikTok article on the front page of HN, and I can never understand it. All I see is 20-something nobodies dancing and making faces in front of a camera. I'm in my 40s and it's just not for me.

As another comment said, the more you use it the more it understand what you like and it gets better, and more addictive. When I first started watching TikTok videos, I got the videos of 20-somethings dancing to the same song over and over and over. It was annoying. But now my "feed" is largely chefs making interesting dishes, like-minded people with opinions on politics (yes, I know echo chambers are dangerous), woo…

I've heard this from various places, but it doesn't work for me. Maybe I'm "unlearnable" or something. I spend a couple of hours on it, get tired of it because it's not appealing to me, come back a few weeks later, do the same thing, and nothing improves.

Or it somehow comes to understand that there's certain general topics I'm interested in more than others, but they're all seemingly variations on the same theme, just applied to different topic areas.

I'm either completely missing something or the death of TikTok will become the fact that it is so predictable that it's memeable. Inevitably someone will make a TikTok satirizing TikToks, and then everyone will move [back] to something else.

Social media sometimes feels like an echo chamber to me, never quite right. Blogs, websites, forums, and so forth (yes, YouTube) all make sense to me. Sites focused on bottlenecking communication all lose something key imho. It's like they're taking something meant to be supplementary and trying to force it as the main conduit.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#440

Post by derbOac »

zuminator wrote: post #159
ryandrake wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I check it out every few months or so when there's a new TikTok article on the front page of HN, and I can never understand it. All I see is 20-something nobodies dancing and making faces in front of a camera. I'm in my 40s and it's just not for me.

It's like a hyperactive Netflix. Instead of bingeing taking ten hours, it takes ten minutes. I'd suggest searching for subjects you're interested in, and "liking" videos that appeal to you. After the app learns your preferences, maybe about 75% of the feed will be related to topics that appeal to you. .

Topics yes (or rather, sort of), the content, no. For me at least.
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