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How far can you go by train in 5h?

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Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#301
post #275
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infamously similar in the UK, even despite being smaller. Particularly East-West travel anywhere much North of London. Many inter-city routes are via London. (I'm not complaining, j'habite à Londres ;))

South West connectivity is fine, you can get from Plymouth to Exeter to Bristol to Birmingham and up to Edinburgh without going anywhere near London.

At an average speed that makes a horse blush, and a capacity that is barely more than a Vauxhall corsa.

Cross country routes are local trains masquerading as long distance, thus with ridiculous prices and the requirement to do split tickets. There’s nowhere near enough capacity on the line.

Penzance to Exeter takes 3 hours - half the speed of a drive. From Exeter to Birmingham it’s another 2h30 at just 60mph average.

A good line would be an hour faster on both legs.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#302
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vancouver’s station does that: preclearance and then sit in a sequestered cage to get on the train. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Central_Station There are some disadvantages, such as not being able to pickup anymore passengers until crossing the border. Probably a non-issue with Vancouver close to the border.

What about that piece of the US that's isolated from the rest, quite close to Vancouver I think, Fort something attached to the South of BC, accessible only through it. Do you have to go through something like that twice, or can you go between it and the main body of the US more easily (without stops perhaps)? Or (facepalm, more obviously) Alaska for that matter?

Point Roberts is probably what you’re thinking of.

Popular with Canadians to send parcels to and pickup gas.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington

A school bus runs from there to mainland USA and I suspect there’s an informal agreement to drive without stopping through Canada so they don’t have to bother too excessively with clearances.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#303
post #24
post #13

Being in the east of France, it's a bit sad how misconnected we are with the west of France. (Lyon Bordeaux you'd think can be done in 2 hours, but no it'll take like 6 hours).

I wish we had this attitude in California! Bordeaux is a city of roughly the same population and economic activity as Fresno, but there are many in California who still argue that Fresno should not be connected by high-speed rail to any place. California's cities are all arranged in a line, it should be the easiest high-speed rail project ever, but it languishes due to lack of imagination.

> California’s cities are all arranged in a line

No, they aren’t.

> it should be the easiest high-speed rail project ever

The error in the preceding claim isn’t the only reason why this one is false, too (geography and preexisting land use also play roles).

> but it languishes due to lack of imagination.

Mostly, it has been delayed by lack of funding, not imagination, but its not really “languishing” right now, either.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that it uses 20 minutes. I guess that's optimistic if you need to account for delays, but that's much longer than I often take to transfer (5 minutes often being workable if the trains are generally reliable, and you're able to catch a later train if you miss the intended one).

doesn't this assume that trains constantly leave the station? In reality there is a train e.g. every hour or so, or even none at the same day

> In reality there is a train e.g. every hour or so, or even none at the same day

That really depends on your route. Some busy lines in the UK have trains every 30 minutes, 15 minutes or even 10 minutes. Across London, it might be every 5 minutes or even every 2.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#305
post #8

It also shows how much the train networks focus on domestic travel. In nearly all bigger countries it is possible to reach most bigger cities within the 5h. But journeys in this time-frame seldomly go much beyond the border. There is still much optimization potential for transnational travel in Europe's train network.

Wendover had a video on this topic just this week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9jirFqex6g For a short summary, the basic problem is that rail infrastructure is paid for by national funds, so there is a bigger incentive to connect two places within the same country than to connect one place within the country to another place within a neighboring country. Wendover theorizes that the decoupling of rail networks fr…

> Wendover theorizes that the decoupling of rail networks from rail service operators (as pushed by the EU-level government) can lead to new demand for international routes as budget operators spring up that are less tied to the demands of a particular national government.

Some problems with that approach are

1. It doesn't take that many different operators before you start running into capacity limits of the network and get into a situation where additional services (when you want even more competition) cannot be scheduled without actively worsening the services offered by existing operators (including operators that might not even be competing within the same market segment, i.e. like long distance operators vs. regional and commuter service operators or freight operators).

2. In principle connections are a core part of railways' service offerings (especially in countries that aren't as centralised as e.g. the stereotype of France), but attractive connection times are only possible between a very limited number of trains, so with multiple competing long distance operators who gets to decide which operator gets the path with the attractive connection times and who doesn't? Attractive connections also require through-ticketing in terms of passenger rights, so you won't be left stranded if you miss a connection because of preceding delays, and both scheduled/coordinated connections and through-ticketing run counter to the mantra of absolutely free-for-all competition.

3. For the wheel-rail interface to work well, you definitively need to take a holistic approach between the needs of the infrastructure and the needs of the vehicles running on that infrastructure. Introducing a hard legal split between infrastructure owner and train operating companies in the name of free competition unfortunately tends to turn that interface into a legal and bureaucratic quagmire that is anything but efficient for the railway system as a whole.

For example in Germany construction works (outside of emergency repairs) are required to be scheduled several years (not just a year plus a bit so its known in time for the next timetable, but some years more) in advance. At that point you already need to specify the exact and precise length of any required possessions, but at the same time due to the rules for tendering construction works, you're also not supposed to specify the exact method of doing those construction works, so for anything slightly more complex how are you now supposed to calculate the exact length for the required possessions if you aren't actually allowed to specify how the construction works are to be executed?

Or for another example: Within the wheel-rail interface you cannot avoid a certain amount of wear and tear, especially on more curvy stretches of line. This affects both the train operators (wheels) as well as the infrastructure operator (rails). Ideally you'd work out some compromise that is tenable for both sides of the interface, and normally somewhat more wear and tear on the wheels is to be preferred, because wheels can re-profiled and/or changed in fixed, covered maintenance facilities (i.e. better working conditions) and while the trains are potentially out of service for regular maintenance anyway, whereas rail renewals need to potentially brave the elements and either block rail traffic or else need to be conducted at unattractive times (for workers, i.e. on weekends and especially at night).

The legal separation between train operating companies and infrastructure owners nevertheless has led train operating companies to possibly try optimising the wheel-rail interface for their own benefit, which has meant that on some heavily used routes with tight(ish) curves, due to excessive wear rails now have to be renewed every year or two, which longer term absolutely isn't sustainable in terms of the demands placed on the maintenance personnel of the infrastructure operator (and never mind the costs, too). (Normally, rail life before a complete renewal is measured in decades!)

So now "the empire strikes back" and the infrastructure operator installs hardened rails in order to return to a somewhat more manageable and sustainable maintenance schedule, but because the vehicle operators haven't been prepared for that switch, they now suddenly find themselves with excessive wheel wear (and unfortunately at a point in time when due to outside political events there isn't much excess capacity in the market for railway wheels). In the end, it's ultimately the passenger who suffers here.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#306

It's sad to see how disconnected the national railway systems are in eastern europe. Basically, 5h always fills the national borders but no further in Hungary, Romania, Poland etc E.g., train connections from Czech Republic to southern Germany are missing all together.

While I agree that rail infrastructure should be improved significantly in Eastern Europe, if you look a bit closer you'll see that there are many other countries where the 5 hrs don't take you much outside of national borders, e.g. Spain, Portugal, Italy, the UK, most of Scandinavia etc. It's also important to note that Ukraine and Moldova run on a different gauge, so the border crossing takes some time.

The U.K. has nonsense passport and security checks which mean trains only go from london and adds a 60-90 minute connection. Without those you could easily route Manchester, Bristol, Leeds, Birmingham etc via Stratford and the tunnel and into much of north west europe in 5 hours.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#307
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we had this attitude in California! Bordeaux is a city of roughly the same population and economic activity as Fresno, but there are many in California who still argue that Fresno should not be connected by high-speed rail to any place. California's cities are all arranged in a line, it should be the easiest high-speed rail project ever, but it languishes due to lack of imagination.

We're of completely opposite minds on this. A stop in Fresno should have been sacrificed so that California High Speed Rail could still happen for the majority of the state. Routing through the Central Valley was practically required for political reasons, and now the entire project has collapsed into a parody of itself. California's cities are not all arranged in a single line. They are in two roughly parallel lines…

The problem with this logic is that an SF-LA line that serves nothing else actually fails to serve most of the state. The median Californian lives in Ventura, so if you just want to serve a majority you can do LA-SD and call it done. Or, you can do Bakersfield-Chico with a spur to SJ and Oakland, you’re also serving the majority of the state that way.

The latter is way easier to build in particular the spine through the Capitol.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#308
post #13

Being in the east of France, it's a bit sad how misconnected we are with the west of France. (Lyon Bordeaux you'd think can be done in 2 hours, but no it'll take like 6 hours).

We're missing a high-speed connection here. The Bordeaux-Sète line is relatively slow (130-160 km/h) and handle a lot of different traffic (freight, regional, TGV, intercity). If the Bordeaux-Toulouse high-speed line is done (planned 2032), that travel time would be shortened.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#309
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we had this attitude in California! Bordeaux is a city of roughly the same population and economic activity as Fresno, but there are many in California who still argue that Fresno should not be connected by high-speed rail to any place. California's cities are all arranged in a line, it should be the easiest high-speed rail project ever, but it languishes due to lack of imagination.

We're of completely opposite minds on this. A stop in Fresno should have been sacrificed so that California High Speed Rail could still happen for the majority of the state. Routing through the Central Valley was practically required for political reasons, and now the entire project has collapsed into a parody of itself. California's cities are not all arranged in a single line. They are in two roughly parallel lines…

> A stop in Fresno should have been sacrificed so that California High Speed Rail could still happen for the majority of the state.

Sacrificing the stop in Fresno (and the other Central Valley cities) would not have enabled HSR for the majority of the state. If anything, it would have made it less viable, not only politically (both in terms of federal and state politics), but also in terms of meeting the actual official goals of the project.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying is cheaper than using trains in EU too.

Especially in the UK. It’s cheaper to take a flight between Manchester and London than jt is to take a train. But the train is the more convenient option, because you don’t have to deal with the security circus at the airport.

I’ve never seen a return Manchester to london flight for £40, yet I can walk up to picadilly, but a ticket, board the train tomorrow and be in london in about 3 hours.
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