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Build your own web framework

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Re: Build your own web framework

#21

Post by syastrov »

leerob wrote: post #14
upupandup wrote: post #4

not sure how this differs with AWS, you can do more at less cost than Vercel

AWS offers a set of primitives, not frameworks. These low-level primitives can be combined to build anything you want. Vercel's Build Output API[1] is a level of abstraction higher. Consider Image Optimization. In this post, there's a `/_vercel/image` URL made available to send an image and return it compressed with a format like `.webp`, if possible based on the browser. With AWS, this would be a combination of S3 (…

Or use imgix for that part

Re: Build your own web framework

#22

Post by eins1234 »

valbaca wrote: post #6
upupandup wrote: post #4

not sure how this differs with AWS, you can do more at less cost than Vercel

I'd say give it a shot. Vercel has a much more reasonable Free Tier, was insanely easy to use and incredibly fast. I had my changes pushed to prod from github in I haven't built anything big on Vercel, but from my test drive, I'd be happy to use them in the future, and this is coming from someone who works AT the A in AWS. AWS does NOT make the easy things easy; though you are right, it does make the "more" possible,…

Reasonable Free Tier, yes, but "call us" Enterprise pricing starts at a team of 11 people, a fact that is hidden deep in their pricing grid behind a tooltip, which I find distasteful.

In what world does a 11 person team qualify as an Enterprise? Though pedanticism aside, my problem is more with the opaque pricing than the naming.

Re: Build your own web framework

#23

Post by brentm »

tofuahdude wrote: post #8
moojd wrote: post #5

This is a nice overview of modern front-end development but I'm constantly disappointed with what 'web framework' means in node-land. None of these things are strictly necessary when building a web app but authz/authn, user management, databases, server-side logic vs client-side logic, are pretty much always needed. When I see the phrase 'web framework' these are the things I am interested in seeing and they all seem…

Its pretty hard to trust a lot of the eng content on the web right now; so much blogspam, self promo stuff from frankly underqualified people who are trying to build up a profile to get hired. Somehow I still don't feel that way about StackOverflow. Google and random results though... yikes.

Very accurate. There was a time that I enjoyed this stuff but now it just takes too much effort to filter.

Re: Build your own web framework

#24

Post by ushakov »

tofuahdude wrote: post #8
moojd wrote: post #5

This is a nice overview of modern front-end development but I'm constantly disappointed with what 'web framework' means in node-land. None of these things are strictly necessary when building a web app but authz/authn, user management, databases, server-side logic vs client-side logic, are pretty much always needed. When I see the phrase 'web framework' these are the things I am interested in seeing and they all seem…

Its pretty hard to trust a lot of the eng content on the web right now; so much blogspam, self promo stuff from frankly underqualified people who are trying to build up a profile to get hired. Somehow I still don't feel that way about StackOverflow. Google and random results though... yikes.

this 100%

sometimes i Google stuff i already know just to verify i remembered it correctly

lately i've been refreshing my memory on Vue JS and this website comes up a lot: https://thewebdev.info

the solutions i read there were often incorrect and misleading

i can't imagine becoming a developer today, when most of the stuff you read on the internet bullsh*t

of course you can browse the docs, but some docs are tedious to comprehend when all you're looking for is a simple one-line answer

Re: Build your own web framework

#25

Post by moojd »

aliqot wrote: post #20
tofuahdude wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its pretty hard to trust a lot of the eng content on the web right now; so much blogspam, self promo stuff from frankly underqualified people who are trying to build up a profile to get hired. Somehow I still don't feel that way about StackOverflow. Google and random results though... yikes.

Until now I had not found an eloquent way to express that emotion, but you come close. Somewhere around the time node got very popular, I started to notice a lot of impeccably branded (is that the right word? trendy maybe?) websites with tutorials that used all the right buzzwords to get me interested. Once I'd step through the content, it'd be very low quality. Despite the smooth lines and round edges, a lot of them…

I am optimistic though. We are still in the early days of server-side javascript. It took 20 years for the greater php community to coalesce around a handful of quality libraries, frameworks, and solutions to things like user management instead of everyone rolling their own or using things like '$_GET["pass"] == "foo"' they they grabbed from a google search. Node is barely over a decade old. We are already seeing patterns mature in the node ecosystem and I hope things keep progressing that way.

Re: Build your own web framework

#26

Post by sebmellen »

koluna wrote: post #13

The more I see these announcements, the more I wonder - what is the appeal of something like Vercel and the likes? On the surface it seems like AWS/GCP/Azure/whichever big cloud provider can replicate literally everything they build within their infrastructure quite easily. Why host your core infra in a BigCo cloud and then the site on Vercel?

The edge network of a Vercel/Netlify is very hard to replicate in cloud as a small startup.

Re: Build your own web framework

#27

Post by ushakov »

sebmellen wrote: post #26
koluna wrote: post #13

The more I see these announcements, the more I wonder - what is the appeal of something like Vercel and the likes? On the surface it seems like AWS/GCP/Azure/whichever big cloud provider can replicate literally everything they build within their infrastructure quite easily. Why host your core infra in a BigCo cloud and then the site on Vercel?

The edge network of a Vercel/Netlify is very hard to replicate in cloud as a small startup.

you could use Fastly or AWS Cloudfront

Re: Build your own web framework

#28

Post by lowercased »

moojd wrote: post #25
aliqot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until now I had not found an eloquent way to express that emotion, but you come close. Somewhere around the time node got very popular, I started to notice a lot of impeccably branded (is that the right word? trendy maybe?) websites with tutorials that used all the right buzzwords to get me interested. Once I'd step through the content, it'd be very low quality. Despite the smooth lines and round edges, a lot of them…

I am optimistic though. We are still in the early days of server-side javascript. It took 20 years for the greater php community to coalesce around a handful of quality libraries, frameworks, and solutions to things like user management instead of everyone rolling their own or using things like '$_GET["pass"] == "foo"' they they grabbed from a google search. Node is barely over a decade old. We are already seeing pat…

> It took 20 years ... Node is barely over a decade old. We are already seeing patterns mature in the node ecosystem and I hope things keep progressing that way.

But... much of the earliest web work (PHP, etc) occurred in the early days of search. Example of quality code, best security practices, etc all were fairly .. rudimentary and hard to find.

Just because it took 20 years starting 20 years ago doesn't justify 20 years starting from 10 years ago. There are infinitely more and better resources for just about everything these days.

Re: Build your own web framework

#29

Post by JustSomeNobody »

tofuahdude wrote: post #8
moojd wrote: post #5

This is a nice overview of modern front-end development but I'm constantly disappointed with what 'web framework' means in node-land. None of these things are strictly necessary when building a web app but authz/authn, user management, databases, server-side logic vs client-side logic, are pretty much always needed. When I see the phrase 'web framework' these are the things I am interested in seeing and they all seem…

Its pretty hard to trust a lot of the eng content on the web right now; so much blogspam, self promo stuff from frankly underqualified people who are trying to build up a profile to get hired. Somehow I still don't feel that way about StackOverflow. Google and random results though... yikes.

It's almost always been like that. When NoSql was the new hotness, there was blogspam and fistfights everywhere. When DI frameworks were the new hotness, there was blogspam and fistfights everywhere. I could go on. Devs see something new, learn enough to be annoyingly dangerous and blog like crazy. Other devs will glazed-eyed follow along because it makes their resume shiny.

Re: Build your own web framework

#30

Post by tomnipotent »

koluna wrote: post #13

The more I see these announcements, the more I wonder - what is the appeal of something like Vercel and the likes? On the surface it seems like AWS/GCP/Azure/whichever big cloud provider can replicate literally everything they build within their infrastructure quite easily. Why host your core infra in a BigCo cloud and then the site on Vercel?

At the end of the day, even when it's running sever-side or on the edge, it still all exists to deliver a front-end experience. Vercel makes delivering such an experience more palatable. This includes isolated environments that can easily be shared and a CDN-as-default deploy model. It's like someone sprinkled a little Heroku magic on a specific front-end deployment workflow.
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