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The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

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Re: The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

#51

Post by meheleventyone »

ycombinete wrote: post #46
sz4kerto wrote: post #23

People claim full support for gender equality, etc. At the same time, they find it OK to ban female nipples (but not male nipples), also it's not OK to not wear a bra in offices, etc. Horrible.

We are coy about the parts of human anatomy involved in child creation and care, especially those that change with puberty. People are sexually interested in female breasts from an "ultimate cause" perspective because they feed babies, and grow when a woman is sexually mature. I'm not saying that they should be covered up; but I don't buy the argument that there's no difference between male and female breasts.

I don't think the OP is saying there is no difference between male and female breasts just that restrictions based on those differences are inane.

In particular these restrictions are broadly a cultural thing rather than innate and part of the taboo about being naked in some cultures is because they sexualize some body parts to the point of fetish. This isn't universally true, even historically within cultures where it is true now and is often lopsided based on power relationships. For example women often bear the brunt of more restrictive dress codes because they stem from patriarchal societies.

Re: The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

#52

Post by dalbasal »

rmbyrro wrote: post #39
lakomen wrote: post #30

What I always loved about Yugoslavia was the freedom. You couldn't criticize the party but everything else was free. I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. You could drive a light motorbike, no helm, no license. The food was natural. You could sleep anywhere without anyone bothering you or having to be afraid that so…

> I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. I hope we can have a civil disagreement on this, without personal resentments. This is indeed freedom, and I don't approve of violent and repressive regimes to change people's behavior. Yet, this is not positive from my point of view. Doing this makes me closer to animals, far…

I disagree entirely.

First, the notion that someone somewhere in society doing porn is bad for the society itself. The desire to shave off societies' "stray hairs" is deeply immoral. It has always has been, but that does not make it right.

Second, I strongly disagree that carefree attitudes towards sex/nudity is automatically dehumanising, animalistic or objectifying. Sexuality, the human body, etc. This stuff is deeply human. See: 100 thousand years of art history.

Last... what is this animal-human dichotomy anyway. Humans are animals. Is childbirth or breastfeeding "farther from human and closer to animal?" These are as viscerally mammalian as key parties on a Wednesday.

Re: The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

#53

Post by speed_spread »

rmbyrro wrote: post #39
lakomen wrote: post #30

What I always loved about Yugoslavia was the freedom. You couldn't criticize the party but everything else was free. I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. You could drive a light motorbike, no helm, no license. The food was natural. You could sleep anywhere without anyone bothering you or having to be afraid that so…

> I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. I hope we can have a civil disagreement on this, without personal resentments. This is indeed freedom, and I don't approve of violent and repressive regimes to change people's behavior. Yet, this is not positive from my point of view. Doing this makes me closer to animals, far…

I believe what OP meant is that there was no media censorship other than political.

Re: The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

#54

Post by wawjgreen »

cosmodisk wrote: post #5

To me, naturist beaches fall under the same category as saunas, when you go naked. In most cases there's virtually zero sexuality going on. Sure, there's always exceptions, where people see tits and go crazy about it, but in most cases it's completely different. I'm quite glad my country also has nudist beaches for those who want to be naked there.

on a nudist beach or a nude sauna, i would have a permanent 3erktion--until it were to be resolved. as it is, the models on the ads along streets are already troublesome enough. isn't it my right to live in a world where semi-nude women are not shoved into my face wherever i look???

Re: The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

#55

Post by moonchrome »

zb10948 wrote: post #32
moonchrome wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm, I can tell you straight away most people in Croatia don't like nudism or naked people walking around. There are places that allow that specifically - but if you walk around shirtless you'll likely get a fine. Croatia is very socially conservative, so I don't get these contrasts with America. We can't even legalise weed - I'd say largely due to religious connotations/pushback.

That's pure conjecture, you don't know that. Yes if you ask someone from continental part, on a typical central european estate, "do you like nudism" ofc the answer will be no. Ask people that live in the towns that have nudist zones under their jurisdiction, that's how you get relevant answers. No, Croatia is not "very socially conservative". It is maybe a bit more conservative than typical EU state which is still w…

>Then the thing is that places mentioned in the thread are not conservative at all. Coastal towns are not conservative.

Umm they are literally putting up boards that they will fine people walking shirtless on islands. Apparently they can't actually fine them because it's not based on any laws - but it's cities putting up these signs.

> Also there have always been undesignated nudist zones everywhere.

Designated or not is a technically, how many people out of general population actually go there ? This notion that it's generally acceptable - it's not. When I've wondered into to those places on Pag as a kid it was almost exclusively tourists and the locals would talk about it very judgementally.

>It is maybe a bit more conservative than typical EU state which is still way more progressive than American notion of "conservative" let alone "very conservative".

A country where we have like 50% of people vaccinated for COVID because of conspiracy theories fuelled by religious community ? Where 86% of population declared as Chatolic ? Where no doctor would perform an abortion on fetus with brain tumor because of call to consciousness (even when it was legal) and a woman had to go to Slovenia ?

Croatia is a religious and conservative country, comparing to US pointless, but pretending we're some progressive nudist friendly country is just counterfactual. We have nudist beaches, and people get naked on boats.

Re: The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

#56

Post by donretag »

lakomen wrote: post #30

What I always loved about Yugoslavia was the freedom. You couldn't criticize the party but everything else was free. I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. You could drive a light motorbike, no helm, no license. The food was natural. You could sleep anywhere without anyone bothering you or having to be afraid that so…

"Bila jednom jedna zemlja

Once upon a time there was a country"

(wish I could find the full transcript)

Re: The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

#57

Post by medo-bear »

lakomen wrote: post #30

What I always loved about Yugoslavia was the freedom. You couldn't criticize the party but everything else was free. I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. You could drive a light motorbike, no helm, no license. The food was natural. You could sleep anywhere without anyone bothering you or having to be afraid that so…

> Likewise if you try to tell the young Croats about the freedom, they don't believe you. They're indoctrinated in school with hate for Serbs

i will happily disagree with you. actually just right now my friends from belgrade have come to visit me. in the last period there have been growing number of interactions between serbs and croats, particularly amongst the youngest adult generation

correct me if im wrong but from personal experience i believe you no longer live here and base your perception on the diaspora. i find people in the diaspora to be way more nationalistic than people here (here = ex-yugand exceptions always exist) and perhaps thats why you are saying that. but its too simplistic and very incorrect to say that about younger generations here

also dont forget that many croats have grandparents who were in the partizans ;) we know quite a bit about yugoslavia (positives and negatives)

Re: The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

#58

Post by moonchrome »

chewonbananas wrote: post #21
moonchrome wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm, I can tell you straight away most people in Croatia don't like nudism or naked people walking around. There are places that allow that specifically - but if you walk around shirtless you'll likely get a fine. Croatia is very socially conservative, so I don't get these contrasts with America. We can't even legalise weed - I'd say largely due to religious connotations/pushback.

Plenty of old men walk shirtless in coastal cities, though.

Apparently those no shirtless walking signs were not based on any laws so they can't fine you, I just remember seeing that on news. Island cities did put up the signs, which was my point about the local attitude.

Re: The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

#59

Post by rmbyrro »

dalbasal wrote: post #52
rmbyrro wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. I hope we can have a civil disagreement on this, without personal resentments. This is indeed freedom, and I don't approve of violent and repressive regimes to change people's behavior. Yet, this is not positive from my point of view. Doing this makes me closer to animals, far…

I disagree entirely. First, the notion that someone somewhere in society doing porn is bad for the society itself. The desire to shave off societies' "stray hairs" is deeply immoral. It has always has been, but that does not make it right. Second, I strongly disagree that carefree attitudes towards sex/nudity is automatically dehumanising, animalistic or objectifying. Sexuality, the human body, etc. This stuff is dee…

Hey, thanks for adding more perspective to the discussion. I think these are points to meditate on.

Clarifying, I didn't mean to express animal/human as a dichotomy. I see it more as a spectrum.

We surely have a LOT in common with animals, but it's also evident that we have the freedom to face everything we do in a different way.

Some animals will stop feeding their cubs to concentrate only on the strongest one. They will also stop feeding a cub if it's anomalous (i.e. physiological malformation).

On this matter, humans used to behave exactly as animals in ancient Greece (i.e. in Sparta). But we chose to live in a better way. We chose it is superior to use our faculties and ingenuity to be able to feed typical babies without sacrificing the atypical ones.

So, yes, for sure, we feed our babies. But we don't have to do it the same way as animals. Animals evolve slowly, pushed by nature. Humans can decide to evolve by their own volition.

That's where I draw a line between humans and other animals.

Perhaps one day we will have evolved to deserve our own kingdom. As we behave right now, I agree with you that we're still much closer to the animal kingdom than anything superior...

Re: The untold story of Yugoslavia’s naturist paradise

#60

Post by credit_guy »

speed_spread wrote: post #53
rmbyrro wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. I hope we can have a civil disagreement on this, without personal resentments. This is indeed freedom, and I don't approve of violent and repressive regimes to change people's behavior. Yet, this is not positive from my point of view. Doing this makes me closer to animals, far…

I believe what OP meant is that there was no media censorship other than political.

And I think the responder is arguing that some media censorship is consistent with the concept of freedom.

My freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins, the saying goes.

I don't like to turn on the TV and get porn content, and especially I don't like my children to be exposed to that content. I'm not opposed to porn content to exist, as long as it is somehow ringfenced from the access of minors. A majority of the population in the US agrees with this stance. Putting porn out in the open is like swinging a fist in their nose. It's not freedom, it's aggression.

If this argument feels unconvincing to you, just replace "porn" with "Holocaust denying propaganda", and read it again.

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