TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business • Hacker News Board

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#431

Post by unsupp0rted » Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 9:20 PM UTC

Khoth wrote: post #380

ryandrake wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a Stripe customer, but I’ve often ended calls with other companies’ human tech support thinking “wow, I wish I could talk to a human.” Not because they didn’t take my side, but because I might as well have been talking to a chatbot. Many companies’ tier 1 support can’t go off script, can’t offer creative solutions that are even slightly off the rails, can’t make exceptions, can’t apply human reason or good ju…

Yeah, I'm also not a stripe customer, but it's not unusual for me to email a company, and get back a canned response to a tangentially related question I didn't ask. If I then reply and try to clarify what I meant, I get back exactly the same canned response. I don't know whether it's a chatbot spitting out replies based on keyword matching, or whether it's a human with a "responses per hour" performance target which…

This happened to me with Tinder, when I begged them for 2 weeks before expiration to let me renew my grandfathered Platinum membership, since my card wasn't showing up. Their canned response kept saying the account will auto-renew, no matter how I worded "no it won't, because you don't seem to have my card on file, even though my card hasn't changed".

Then, when the account didn't auto-renew because they didn't have any card on file, their canned response switched to "create a new Platinum account" (with much worse benefits).

I requested that this be the same grandfathered type of Platinum account that I lost.

Their canned response was that I should create a new Platinum account.

I said okay, but I want the same benefits I lost.

Their canned response was that I should create a new Platinum account.

I created a new Platinum account. It had much worse benefits.

Approximately one week later, I was permanently banned from Tinder for violating community standards without explanation (after having been a nice member of the community for the past year on Platinum and continuing to be one).

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#432

Post by edwinwee » Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 9:30 PM UTC

redeeman wrote: post #79

This "rant" is in general, and not related to OPs case I would strongly recommend to not rely on stripe, their service level has become a joke. I get it, they have a nice API, their system is technically nice in many ways, and they are (or atleast were ~5 years ago) way easier to deal with for developers than the "old" players on the market. but they are kinda like google, their support is pretty much non existent wh…

Do you have some examples of bad support you had with us? Could you forward them to me at edwin@stripe.com?

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#433

Post by x0x0 » Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 9:50 PM UTC

notinfuriated wrote: post #407

SyneRyder wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And one of the comments below that one explains exactly why this is a problem: "When you sign up for your Stripe account, you had to state what business you were using it for. If you're doing business with your Stripe account that is not related to what you sign up for, then there are reasons why Stripe is now holding your money." It's listed in Stripe's terms and conditions on Prohibited Items: "Use of Stripe produc…

Makes sense why this would raise a red flag, but it does not explain why Stripe supposedly had extremely shitty customer service where he can't get talk to a person and get this resolved in less than a week or two (let alone 120 days that is actually arbitrarily indefinite).

I'd bet $20 he's been repeatedly told this, and his definition of "can't talk to a human" is "can't talk to a human that agrees with whatever demands he's making".

From the reddit post, the demand appears to be to not hold the money for 120 days, and there's no reason for Stripe to agree to that. He also appears upset that Stripe reviewed his company docs after he violated his agreement with Stripe by selling a car, rather than the cellphones he told Stripe he sold.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#434

Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

duskwuff wrote: post #427

Dylan16807 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is selling a van universally against the terms of service? Especially a cellphone shop van? If it was just bad communication about what this specific business uses the card for, it seems like that should be resolvable without waiting out the chargeback period.

When you get a merchant account, part of the application process is describing what your business is, what it sells, and what your expected sales volume is. These metrics are used for fraud detection and risk management. Using a merchant account for a purpose which you haven't disclosed to the processor -- like a cell phone store selling a truck -- is a violation of the merchant agreement, and is often grounds for ac…

I know that. You avoided addressing either of my points though.

1. Is selling trucks against the terms in general?

2. This is a cell phone store selling a cell phone store truck. It's part of the business, not something unrelated.

If they had thought of it, they probably would have made trucks or no trucks a part of the processing agreement up front. They thought it was a reasonable use, and it might have even been a reasonable use! So why can't this be resolved any sooner or with better communication?

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#435

Post by neurostimulant » Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 10:19 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #414

Tryk wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any phone number there.

If you have an account, you click "call me" and they call you

OP said the options to "call me" is greyed out: https://old.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/wa230m/tifu_by_using_...

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#436

Post by neurostimulant » Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 10:24 PM UTC

vemv wrote: post #11

If it was, say, a $30000 charge I could give Stripe the benefit of doubt, but $3300 is a pretty ordinary amount for any retailer. Could be e.g. a laptop sale, or three phones? When I see Stripe's apology here it will not be enough for me - not at least without a detailed blog post / postmortem. Until/if that moment happens, I'll regard Stripe as an untrustworthy entity and will recommend doing the same to do anyone I…

They seem to be using stripe to process transactions for a cell phone stores, but the $3300 transaction is for selling a van. I guess this tripped some fraud prevention system.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#437

Post by flak48 » Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 10:55 PM UTC

joshmanders wrote: post #423

flak48 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should Stripe take on the cost of investigating / handling a potential chargeback, even though it might be likely to be resolved in the business (and Stripe's) favor? When it comes to chargebacks it's not just customer experience (reputation damage due to fraud) and liquidity risks that Stripes or other payment providers are protecting themselves against - but also the actual support cost of handling each chargeb…

So let me get this straight, you're siding in favor of Stripe not doing what Stripe signed up for by becoming a payment processor, is that correct?

Not correct, OP entered into an agreement with Stripe where Stripe would process payments received for the sale of cell phones (and not automobiles).

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#438

Post by MerelyMortal » Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 11:09 PM UTC

upupandup wrote: post #327

nemothekid wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any other payment processor that pulls this will immediately be sued, so why are they risking this knowing that TOS isnt the law? What are you talking about? PayPal has been doing this, and worse, for a little over 20 years and has a $100B valuation on the public markets.

What do you think I'm talking about? That didn't stop them getting sued. Up to certain amounts Paypal/any US processor, whill automatically forfeit in small claims court. So what OP could do is sue Stripe in their civil small claims court and Stripe won't bother sending a lawyer out as doing so would be expensive. Up to about $10k this should be possible. I've had many success by taking shady companies that screwed m…

Do those successes include getting paid?

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#439

Post by biggc » Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 11:19 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #142

stef25 wrote: post #116

FWIW it's totally possible to talk to someone at Stripe. We got someone on the line and successfully negotiated their fees. We're now using a 2nd payment processor that handles a type of payment unavailable at Stripe and they're just garbage compared to Stripe's backend / control panel system, which is phenomenally. Excellent company as far as I'm concerned.

I built the Stripe integration for a medium sized online retailer, and our experience wasn't quite as good as this. Our COO could get them on the line to negotiate our contract, but our engineers struggled to get useful answers out of them via email and our account manager often took weeks and multiple pings to respond to product questions. I have had amazing success chatting with their engineers on IRC, but it's fai…

I believe that Stripe EOL'd IRC support when Freenode imploded. They've got a Discord, but I've heard that it's harder to engage with engineers there than IRC because of the volume of "general support" chatter.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#440

Post by toss1 » Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 11:35 PM UTC

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #390

toss1 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Is it theft if I pay my bills late? Depending on how late you pay them, YES, it is theft, and can be so judged in court. >>. Have you ever had a customer fail to pay an invoice on time? Have you ever not been reimbursed for expenses in a timely manner? Have you ever been charged the wrong amount? Had a supplier go bankrupt? Yes, all of those things. And I pointed out that SOMETIMES, they can go by almost unnoticed…

> It is one thing when they happen by accident, but when it is the result of capricious and hostile decisions by a vendor, it is an outrage. I couldn't agree more. Which of these is happening with respect to the OP? It's entirely not clear.

It doesn't matter — even if it started entirely as an accident— the vendor's failure to promptly address it, and the fact that that failure is a systematic property of their operation, puts them into the outrageous category.

It's like when you're on hold for 20minutes hearing recordings about long wait timed due to "high call volume".

No, it is not high call volume, it is the damn company systematically understaffing the call center and overloading their workers to extract more money and externalize more costs onto their customers.

We should avoid doing business with them if possible.