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TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business
381–390 of 461 posts
Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
A paper-titled transaction seems like it should have one of the lowest chargeback risks. A copy of the purchase and sale specifying "as-is", plus signed title should be pretty clear cut evidence against a chargeback. It's also not terribly surprising that someone who develops familiarity with one tool will then apply that tool to new situations. The main problem here is the ever-growing financial censorship regime /…
Why should Stripe take on the cost of investigating / handling a potential chargeback, even though it might be likely to be resolved in the business (and Stripe's) favor? When it comes to chargebacks it's not just customer experience (reputation damage due to fraud) and liquidity risks that Stripes or other payment providers are protecting themselves against - but also the actual support cost of handling each chargeb…
Chargebacks are a possibility with every single credit card transaction. Routine B2C transactions carry the possibility that a card number was used fraudulently, the product was never delivered, or the customer is otherwise unhappy. A one-time payment for a vehicle with a state-documented title carries none of those risks.
Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business
#383Putting my dang hat on. Related: Tell HN: Stripe brought my business to a dead stop - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21030633 - September 2019 Tell HN: Stripe shut down my 4-year business with no explanation - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28085706 - August 2021 Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28522784 - September 2021 Stripe…
I'm no defender of stripe (or corporations) but the one thing I always find interesting is that a lot of the complaint stories are one sided as the company can't release any information due to privacy. Many times these complaint stories have cases of fraud or other problematic issues and use the public forum to generate publicity. There are cases of people getting caught up inadvertently as well.
uhhh their privacy policy doesn't apply to disputes
it mostly applies to 'personal information'. it applies to transactions if they're 'end customer' transactions (customer's customer). And per 3d in the policy, 'consent' is a basis for data processing, so stripe could ask to comment publicly on the dispute, and then the customer could let them
Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment should make every Stripe customer run. You've build up an incredible amount of kudos with your comments and blog posts over the last decade+ here and are willing to burn it for a corporation in a moment? Earning trust takes a long time, losing trust only takes the blink of an eye.
The guy tried to use a cellphone shop account to sell a used van via credit card. If I was Stripe I'd be holding the money until the chargeback period was over too.
Is selling a van universally against the terms of service? Especially a cellphone shop van?
If it was just bad communication about what this specific business uses the card for, it seems like that should be resolvable without waiting out the chargeback period.
Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business
#385The OP later clarified that it wasn't a normal transaction. They sold a "cheap company van" using their stripe business account. That seems like a huge liability, since a used car seems extremely likely to cause a chargeback. I don't think dealerships would accept a credit card payment (other than deposit) for this reason. https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/comments/wa1zob/dont_...
Most 2nd hand car sales in the US are sold "As-is", so the buyer has very little recurse after the fact. The consensus is when it comes to 2nd hand vehicle sales is buyer beware and you should be taking the vehicle to be checked over by another garage before finalising the purchase. Last car I purchased (granted a) it was brand new b) I'm in the UK) I purchased the car using my debit card (I kept the recept for ages…
The issue is that the credit card company doesn’t necessarily run through a full legal analysis of the seller’s rights in a transaction when the buyer requests a chargeback.
Of course it may eventually all get settled in the seller’s favor in court, but in the meantime the buyer has their vehicle and their money back and it’s on the seller to track them down and sue.
So people tend to do person-to-person used vehicle purchases in cash-equivalents (cash, cashier’s check, etc) so that there’s no worry about the money disappearing after the buyer drives over the horizon.
Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business
#386(I work for Stripe, and since many of my colleagues are currently sleeping, taking the liberty of saying this on their behalf.) We are looking into things. As someone who ran businesses for a long time myself, it would be very alarming to me if customers felt they were being ignored while repeatedly talking to people who work for us. If that ever happens, please bring in literally anyone at Stripe, inclusive of other…
Corporate process improvement is not an excuse for treating people badly. An individual human who treats people badly is not allowed to say "well I deal with a lot of people and I need algorithms and sometimes my algorithms don't work so I'm doing my best to improve them". Corporations should not get a pass because they need cheap processes that "scale" to maintain their profit margins. This is the perpetual moral ha…
> Corporate process improvement is not an excuse for treating people badly. An individual human who treats people badly is not allowed to say "well I deal with a lot of people and I need algorithms and sometimes my algorithms don't work so I'm doing my best to improve them".
I don't think you're disagreeing with patio11 here. To wit:
> Sometimes situations which result in external complaints are the result of a process failure, and *in those cases we try to fix the instant case and improve processes in the future*.
I read that as: they prioritize satisfying the immediate, dissatisfied customer first and address process improvement second, which is exactly the priority that you're suggesting. Especially combined with patio11's other suggestion of personally contacting the upper management of the company.
Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business
#387(I work for Stripe, and since many of my colleagues are currently sleeping, taking the liberty of saying this on their behalf.) We are looking into things. As someone who ran businesses for a long time myself, it would be very alarming to me if customers felt they were being ignored while repeatedly talking to people who work for us. If that ever happens, please bring in literally anyone at Stripe, inclusive of other…
A business is a structure of people, and my intuition is to achieve healthy dynamics, people should treat it like this kind of parasocial relationship.
If you fuck up, I should forgive you as long as you're not an asshole about it. However, it seems like a recurring theme, that modern tech companies don't actually provide support. If that's not in line with the economics of the situation, maybe I'm wrong to hold it against the company itself.
But maybe the cost of this model is hidden from the consumer, and I'd rather pay a bit to have reliability and fairness. I don't know how much I'd have to pay, but I'm willing to guess it's palatable, or at least in the neighbourhood. If we are being tricked by these hidden costs, it's better (if you can) to move on, there are people trying to compete even if it's a difficult industry to break into. Try not to get locked in. If I were running a small business, I'd definitely be discounting crypto payments and putting the extra work into handling whatever regulatory complications arise, vs yelling at the walls that are the infinitely scaling tech companies
Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business
#388(I work for Stripe, and since many of my colleagues are currently sleeping, taking the liberty of saying this on their behalf.) We are looking into things. As someone who ran businesses for a long time myself, it would be very alarming to me if customers felt they were being ignored while repeatedly talking to people who work for us. If that ever happens, please bring in literally anyone at Stripe, inclusive of other…
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Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Their dev support on discord This is also a red flag
Using Discord for support is a major red flag.
My history might be a bit fuzzy, but that exists in lineage from when Stripe had an IRC channel for dev support.
This is Stripe opting to go to where a core customer segment (developers) live. Discord sucks but from a business perspective it’s smart. You wouldn’t use their Discord chat for just any issue.
Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have run a small business, and I am somewhat familiar with payments infrastructure. From my perspective, it is the room that is ignorant. Have you ever had a customer fail to pay an invoice on time? Have you ever not been reimbursed for expenses in a timely manner? Have you ever been charged the wrong amount? Had a supplier go bankrupt? If 3k cash flow made or break my small business, then I would've been toast wit…
>>Is it theft if I pay my bills late? Depending on how late you pay them, YES, it is theft, and can be so judged in court. >>. Have you ever had a customer fail to pay an invoice on time? Have you ever not been reimbursed for expenses in a timely manner? Have you ever been charged the wrong amount? Had a supplier go bankrupt? Yes, all of those things. And I pointed out that SOMETIMES, they can go by almost unnoticed…
> It is one thing when they happen by accident, but when it is the result of capricious and hostile decisions by a vendor, it is an outrage.
I couldn't agree more. Which of these is happening with respect to the OP? It's entirely not clear.