Live data from Hacker News

House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

seekingalpha.com

261–270 of 382 posts

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is still proof an outsider can win. He needed money but someone outside the political class still came in and won despite his parties best efforts against it (at the beginning when he was just a primary candidate they made their bed with his now).

“An outsider”? Trump is a billionaire who has been directly involved in politics for decades.

If anything doesn't he represent a more direct "taking of the reins" by the lobbyist/corpo class? Even most lifer politicians themselves are more "outsiders" than he is/was.

It's weird that people believe he is a political outsider. I've never heard a holistic/logical argument showing he is somehow more divested or decoupled from the implicit oligarchy class that ultimately is deciding legislation/law/executive orders these days.

I guess it's because he's bounced around parties and people are really firmly sold on the republican/democrat binary, seems superficial to me but I'd be willing to hear any cogent argument made.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no real reason for a lawmaker or their immediate family to be buying individual stocks. You lost me here. Participating in society is okay. Maybe in the case of a judge, who is supposed to be impartial, this could be the case. But an insulated lawmaker is definitely not the way to go. If a lawmaker riuns his financial status via the stockmarket, cool! Elect someone else. > So they can do something like buy…

> Which politicians are interested in "what's good for the country" over "what's good for me"? And why is that why anyone is elected? I though we voted on issues, ideologies, directions-to-go-in and policy etc. Well that's kind of a bad argument, because if "we voted on issues..." we're just declaring that this is one of the issues (etc.) that needs voted on and the resolution is to prohibit these transactions... So…

> Well that's kind of a bad argument, because if "we voted on issues..." we're just declaring that this is one of the issues (etc.) that needs voted on and the resolution is to prohibit these transactions...

Ah! So, we are approaching democracy. I am saying this is not an issue, there are others that are saying it is. Honesty, lets see if the House votes in your favor, my popcorn is popped.

> So the issue we elected politicians to fix was politicians trading stocks.

Some people see this as an issue, others don't. But, I understand that I am messaging in a place that has opinions that are different than mine. However, I owe my livelihood to having read this place as a teenager. So, here I am. I know when I one day run for office, the members of this board, likely, would not vote for me. I still like to exercise my thoughts and ideas in a familiar community.

> The ideology is that politicians shouldn't trade stocks because they vote on bills that they have inside knowledge on.

That is one ideology. There are many others. Can you think of a honest, good reason that a politician might have to trade stocks? If you can't think of good reason, you're ideology has given you bias against someone (in the same way that it has given you bias for someone else). There many different ways of life, most people think theirs is the best way.

> The direction to go in is not allowing politicians to hold individual stocks.

I don't think this is the best direction to go in.

> The policy is they can't own individual stocks going forward.

We'll see if the policy shifts in this direction

> And this is a thing we voted on.

Who is we? Not me.

> So I won't rule out everything but in your examples of guns and gold that would also prohibit the politician from selling those things or having to give them up as well.

But if the politicians aren't following current laws, why would they follow new laws? (The law I am referring to is the stock trade disclosure one, but there are others)

> You're taking the stance that everything is effectively the same so why are people singling out stock trading

Agreed

> Whereas I think there are shades of gray.

Agreed, even private citizens have to declare their trades to the SEC once a trade reaches a certain value.

> that isn't in the spotlight as much is because it doesn't happen at the federal level but at the state and local level.

I disagree, shifts in land value happen for many reasons including legislation. Are these shifts in value as volatile as the ones seen in stock market? The answer, IMO, depends on the time frame.

> There are a ton of injustices that still occur.

Agreed, but, More laws don't stop injustices, they just cause more people to have more interactions with law enforcement agents. I am not for that.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not particularly confused about the salary though I see how my comment point to that. I am trying to assert that political machines require money. Taxpayer money is one avenue the stock market is another. I am also saying that the money allocated, by taxpayer money, may not be enough. One way to alleviate this tension is investing in the stock market. If I am not mistaken, if this ban passes, would they not also…

> I am also saying that the money allocated, by taxpayer money, may not be enough What is this hunch based on, given that you didn't know they had another $1,000,000+ to spend?

> What is this hunch based on

Politicians trade stocks

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#264

Hear me out... few people want to run for federal office already. The pay isn't great and it's hard work. If the US was a company, there'd be no question that we'd need to pay our leadership much better to attract top talent. We pay senators $170k a year to manage our country with a $20 trillion economy. So what we end up with is activists who crave power and elites from rich families for whom $170k a year is a round…

Official pay was debated by the usa founders. You can imagine a small amount making sense; you can imagine a large amount making sense. You can pretend you're Plato writing The Republic, if you want.

The reality is simple: Official pay is irrelevant. It's the system itself that helps or harms, and most countries are plutocracies.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#265

Lawrence Lessig (Harvard law professor famous for fighting for sane copyright law) does a great presentation on the root cause of Americas problems. He also ran for president in 2016. It can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE The short version is that to win primaries you need money. Money mainly comes from corporations and rich people. Taking money from corporations and rich people creates…

[deleted]

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of "blind" or anonymous congressional voting. It feels counterintuitive, but donors might be less willing to "buy" votes if they can't confirm that they're getting what they pay for. And a representative who has accepted lots of corporate money might feel safer "betraying" those donors. I think representatives would still feel pressure to vote in line with the interests of their constituents and get r…

How will voters know whether their reps are voting for the right things though

[deleted]

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#267

Lawrence Lessig (Harvard law professor famous for fighting for sane copyright law) does a great presentation on the root cause of Americas problems. He also ran for president in 2016. It can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE The short version is that to win primaries you need money. Money mainly comes from corporations and rich people. Taking money from corporations and rich people creates…

> The short version is that to win primaries you need money.

And he's wrong.

_That_ problem is caused by the lack of choice. The corruption is the laws passed to entrench the Republican and Democratic party as the only two practical choice on every ballot. The lack of accountability is a direct result of that and nearly all other sources of dysfunction stems from it. The amount of compromise every voter has to make to support their platform of least disgust is the problem.

You can have your candidates in any color you like, so long as that color is blue/red.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#268

Lawrence Lessig (Harvard law professor famous for fighting for sane copyright law) does a great presentation on the root cause of Americas problems. He also ran for president in 2016. It can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE The short version is that to win primaries you need money. Money mainly comes from corporations and rich people. Taking money from corporations and rich people creates…

Marx saw this problem 100 years ago. Democracy under capitalism is just a mechanism for settling disputes among the ruling class.

Propose a practical solution.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#270

Lawrence Lessig (Harvard law professor famous for fighting for sane copyright law) does a great presentation on the root cause of Americas problems. He also ran for president in 2016. It can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE The short version is that to win primaries you need money. Money mainly comes from corporations and rich people. Taking money from corporations and rich people creates…

I'm originally from Kenya. We used to have a joke "If it happens in Africa it is called corruption. If it happens in the US it is called lobbying". I remember seeing a chart of how much money a Senator had to raise every week for their next race and it was stark bonkers (and this was in the 90s, before Citizens United). I just checked and the figure is even worse now. https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/02/state-of…

As an american, I really enjoy learning things like this about how other countries view us and our craziness. A lot of people here would be genuinely confused at the comparison.

>"If it happens in Africa it is called corruption. If it happens in the US it is called lobbying".

To add to this, we (americans) also never refer to our own elite class as oligarchs. That's reserved for other countries, because ours is a totally fair, democratic, and meritocratic society, and we're definitely not ruled by a small group of well connected rich people.

Post reply on HN