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TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

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Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if the company had some way, any way at all, to reach an actual human being, this wouldn't be a constantly repeated problem on HN and elsewhere.

As I have observed in other contexts ( https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1463749947858165761 ), many people who say "Ugh, I cannot reach a real human" have in fact spoken to several humans, repeatedly and at length, and are imprecisely stating their desire to speak to a person who would agree with their view of the facts and swiftly enact the resolution that they prefer. We offer (human-powered, somewhat obviously?)…

I’m not a Stripe customer, but I’ve often ended calls with other companies’ human tech support thinking “wow, I wish I could talk to a human.” Not because they didn’t take my side, but because I might as well have been talking to a chatbot. Many companies’ tier 1 support can’t go off script, can’t offer creative solutions that are even slightly off the rails, can’t make exceptions, can’t apply human reason or good judgment, can’t update fields in their screens that are read-only… they are basically IVR systems that eat lunch. So I can emphasize with the feeling that customers are always interacting with an API.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#362
post #89

This isn't surprising to me, and I don't think less of Stripe for doing this. It appears everybody is jumping to conclusions. Saying Stripe is "stealing" is laughable. There is a tremendous amount of fraud abound. Payment service providers like Stripe sit in between businesses and credit card companies, who proxy banks, who proxy customers. Banks are pretty solid, as are credit card companies, so the transitive natur…

Why do you assume they're holding the money for legimitate reasons? I count as much more likely they're just fucking up and have no idea or don't care enough. Plenty of example of this, event amongst top tech companies: see the clusterfuck that is youtube copyright claims for instance. Every time there are automated flaggings, there are fuckups. We can accept it if there's an efficient way to challenge, but that's no…

All of the companies are needlessly inviting the wrath of regulation on themselves. Sooner or later (probably later) a political consensus could emerge to require detailed human review, subject to a regulator intervening on any/every case, whenever they keep more than $X for more than Y days.

I suggest that it might be smarter for all of these firms to do a better job, voluntarily, of providing human interaction and review - to forestall such regulation as long as possible.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you process more than say $10,000 per year, you should have multiple payment providers. It's doubtful that Stripe is worse than other payment processors, they just process more payments than most other. Payment processors universally suck, partly because they live in fear of VISA and MasterCard. They tend to overreact or have automated systems that will falsely flag account. Most have okay support, but resolving i…

10k? That's a tiny amount to have to get a second payment processor. Additionally if you are dealing with physical cards you probably also need a second set of card readers?

Could be $10K, could be $200K, depends on your tolerance for risk.

And, yeah I was thinking online only. If you need card readers you're pretty much stuck with one provider. Where I've seen people get in trouble with their payment processors it has only been online. Terminals are rather difficult to misuse these days.

If you deal with both online and card readers, keep those on separate accounts. That is two account at the payment processor (PSP) and two accounts with the acquirer company.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I have observed in other contexts ( https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1463749947858165761 ), many people who say "Ugh, I cannot reach a real human" have in fact spoken to several humans, repeatedly and at length, and are imprecisely stating their desire to speak to a person who would agree with their view of the facts and swiftly enact the resolution that they prefer. We offer (human-powered, somewhat obviously?)…

This comment should make every Stripe customer run. You've build up an incredible amount of kudos with your comments and blog posts over the last decade+ here and are willing to burn it for a corporation in a moment? Earning trust takes a long time, losing trust only takes the blink of an eye.

The guy tried to use a cellphone shop account to sell a used van via credit card. If I was Stripe I'd be holding the money until the chargeback period was over too.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#366

Putting my dang hat on. Related: Tell HN: Stripe brought my business to a dead stop - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21030633 - September 2019 Tell HN: Stripe shut down my 4-year business with no explanation - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28085706 - August 2021 Stripe banned us for payment disputes but we never had a single dispute - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28522784 - September 2021 Stripe…

I'm no defender of stripe (or corporations) but the one thing I always find interesting is that a lot of the complaint stories are one sided as the company can't release any information due to privacy. Many times these complaint stories have cases of fraud or other problematic issues and use the public forum to generate publicity. There are cases of people getting caught up inadvertently as well.

What does it matter if it's one-sided? Reading the complaints and the seqience of events give me perspective on whether something like that could happen to me as a platform user.

In the real world, I am not going to get Patio11 to respond as he's doing here. I'd get a CSR rep working off a script. So I don't really care what the CEO's POV is.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#367
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customers like the ability to charge back if the product is faulty, not as advertised, or the retailer goes under. Heck its one of the advertised bonuses of using a credit card for purchases, You are spending the banks money so you are better protected against fraud/retailer bankruptcy. Customers with outstanding orders are often on the bottom of the list of creditors who get paid back when a company goes bust and ev…

They like it, but are they willing to pay for it? The vendor needs to factor in the costs induced by Stripe. That's 3% fee plus the danger of your account being frozen. How much is that? Maybe another 1%? So if the "price" to use Stripe is 4%, the vendor could offer their customers the same products for 2% less if they pay via lightning - and share the savings with their customers. Sounds like a good deal. I have bou…

I too found credit cards scary to begin with, but that was down to my own youthful idiocy. But these days not so much (As I would like to believe I am now more responsible with money than I was at 18).

> I have to get it physically delivered to my snail mail box.

Same here in the UK, however the cards are not delievered "activated", so you have to verify account details to enable to the card so prevents against thieft of the card in the mail (as even if it was stolen from the mail and activated, you will quickly contact the card issuer to say "Hey, where my card?" at which point the issuer will cancel the card and cancel any trasactions made on the card)

> everytime I pull that thing out, someone could photograph or memorize the numbers on it and cause me trouble.

Same could happen with Debit cards too, however the card number alone is useless without the EMV chip for in store transactions here in the UK (Mastercard are even phasing out the magnetic stripe completely[0] - My accounts are set to refuse magnetic stripe transactions unless I enable them via the banks app) and online transactions offer lower fee's if you validate the 3 digits on the back of the card and the address of the card holder, so most online stores will have for all 3 pieces of info (card number, the CVV, and the card holders address) before accepting the transaction. Making it harder to commit the fraud.

My cards (which I recently had replaced as I misplaced my wallet, guess i'm not as responsible as I thought I was) all now have the card number on the back of the card (makes it hard to photograph the card number as the chip and number are onn opposite sides, so when you insert/tap the card into a reader the number is not facing you or anyone standing next to/behind you.

Most of my cards support Apple Pay (The exception is my PayPal Business card which doesn't whoever I don't carry that card with me anyway) So most of the time I'm not getting my cards out of my wallet when I'm purchasing items in store (Prob the reason I misplaced my wallet, Its prob in the house SOMEWHERE...). But granted Apple Pay/Google Pay are not as widely used as the plastic cards shipped from the card issuers are.

Replacing my cards was a piece of cake for me, granted I use more "modern banks" than the high street banks of old, so when I reported my cards as lost my bank issued me a temporary card to my phone so I could still do purchases while I waited for my new card to arrive (Not all banks do this, and the temp card had a max spend limit on it until my new card arrived).

And on top of that the credit card has greater consumer protections than debit cards anyway if something were to happen.

[0]: https://www.mastercard.com/news/perspectives/2021/magnetic-s...

EDIT: I forgot to say. Just because Credit cards have greater protections than Debit cards, that doesn't mean that debits cards have no protection at all.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and OP understands that. But, there’s apparently no effective resolution process, especially one involving a human. What would you suggest the OP do to resolve their issue?

There is no "resolution" to the situation. His account has a reserve on it and it may stay there for the entire lifetime of the account. He has to just deal with it.

Reserve isn’t much of a problem. Never getting your funds is different.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#369
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customers like the ability to charge back if the product is faulty, not as advertised, or the retailer goes under. Heck its one of the advertised bonuses of using a credit card for purchases, You are spending the banks money so you are better protected against fraud/retailer bankruptcy. Customers with outstanding orders are often on the bottom of the list of creditors who get paid back when a company goes bust and ev…

They like it, but are they willing to pay for it? The vendor needs to factor in the costs induced by Stripe. That's 3% fee plus the danger of your account being frozen. How much is that? Maybe another 1%? So if the "price" to use Stripe is 4%, the vendor could offer their customers the same products for 2% less if they pay via lightning - and share the savings with their customers. Sounds like a good deal. I have bou…

> They like it, but are they willing to pay for it?

There's nothing more annoying than trying to pay for your meal via a payment method they don't accept -- a common one these days is cash, many restaurants just don't accept it around here anymore, with no signage. So, for businesses, it isn't just a matter "willing to pay for it" but also customer expectations and not having to pay for "employee downtime" (such as employees having to explain why they don't accept that payment method) and "lost inventory" (such as a table being held while someone travels somewhere to retrieve a different payment method).

> the vendor could offer their customers the same products for 2% less if they pay via lightning

They can do this already by switching to a different payment provider that isn't "turn-key via API." There are many payment providers that only cost a small percentage over the interchange rate which varies between 1.5% and 3%, IIRC, depending on the type of card. You have to deal with sending transactions via FTP and all kinds of shenanigans ... but this is why you pay Stripe a flat rate, right?

> and share the savings with their customers.

I LOL'd. That never happens. Ever. Also, 2% isn't going to make a noticeable difference to practically anyone.

> I have bought something with my CC hundreds of times and never ever did a chargeback.

And that one time you do, you'll be incredibly thankful to get the money back that was spent on a container of shoes in a country you've never been to. True story.

> everytime I pull that thing out, someone could photograph or memorize the numbers on it and cause me trouble.

You can use tap-to-pay in a reasonably advanced area. My card never comes out of my wallet. Ever. I just hold my wallet up to the sensor and it is done.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#370
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking generally, chat and phone support are designed to provide immediate round-the-clock service to a wide range of issues but not literally every type of issue that a financial institution has to be able to deal with. Sometimes, a financial institution might only be able, due to staffing or other considerations, to deal with you asynchronously in writing, perhaps from e.g. a group of professionals who are not as…

This is a roundabout non-answer that doesn't explain why chat and phone support were/are greyed out. Are you just trying to say "we're so short staffed, there's no one to answer your messages, let alone your calls?"

On this page where it pops up a support window, https://support.stripe.com/?contact=true (you might need to be logged in to see it) there's a dropdown with various choices, and the Chat and Call buttons get enabled or disabled depending on what you choose from the dropdown. In the default state with no option chosen, all 3 buttons are grayed out, but a lot of the options seem to enable all 3 buttons.
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