Socialism for the rich
Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
81–90 of 489 posts
Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
#82Such a monumental scam and a gross theft from taxpayers. Companies making billions of dollars in profits don't need free money. I could be onboard with a subsidized loan, but handouts are not needed. FWIW, I work at a company that stands to benefit from this bill. Does the US need to secure reliable semiconductor supply chains free of China? Sure. This is not the most cost effective way to do it.
What would be a good way?
Nationalization, imo. Nationalize semiconductor manufacturing, such that the profits flow back to the people.
Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
#83Such a monumental scam and a gross theft from taxpayers. Companies making billions of dollars in profits don't need free money. I could be onboard with a subsidized loan, but handouts are not needed. FWIW, I work at a company that stands to benefit from this bill. Does the US need to secure reliable semiconductor supply chains free of China? Sure. This is not the most cost effective way to do it.
Cost is not the only consideration. I fear for people who only focus on one issue and ignore the rest. Rarely do we see congressional leaders agreeing on this scale. I would say they find that reliance on China to be a threat to National Security. US and China communications is zero and even lower than it was during the Cold War. Pelosi story on visiting Taiwan should give you an idea of the stakes that are play. Chi…
>China siding with Russia should be the final consideration
If it happened, which it didn't.
Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
#84I disagree that subsidizing R&D to a few companies is going to make us more competitive. Look at GE or Boeing, it didn’t work out. What works is a free market. Raise import costs on CPUs and you’ll incentivize building in the US and more companies to form. It costs $0 tax dollars and brings in revenue and high paying jobs. Similar to what we did with car manufacturing.
Tariffs on products we don't have immediate domestic manufacturing capacity for will hurt the economy in the short term, which is not a great move during a period of rising inflation. It's a tough decision though, because it does feel like the better move for the long term.
> Tariffs on products we don't have immediate domestic manufacturing capacity for will hurt the economy in the short term
I suppose you could announce tariffs which will take place 5 years down the line? And ramp it up over time?
Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
#85When will senate pass a technological test. Lets make these blokes take a MINIMAL entry level exam; * What is a data base * What is personal identifiable identification and why does it mattter * What does a walled garden mean So many functionally identifiable comms These fucking morons cant even state the above. De-Seat them all.
I agree at least half of the lawmakers probably couldn't correctly (enough) answer those questions.
Though there are a number of really savvy ones like Wyden (D-OR) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Wyden That senator has done good work, even if I don't live in Oregon anymore.
Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
#86What would happen is congress subsidized last mile internet access?
Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
What would be a good way?
United States Semiconductor - aka spinning up a nationalized firm.
Agreed with this. Has many benefits, including that the profits flow back to the taxpayers rather than to corporations and shareholders. Semiconductors are too important to national security to be controlled by profit seeking corporations whom have little allegiance to the nation or the people.
Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
#88I disagree that subsidizing R&D to a few companies is going to make us more competitive. Look at GE or Boeing, it didn’t work out. What works is a free market. Raise import costs on CPUs and you’ll incentivize building in the US and more companies to form. It costs $0 tax dollars and brings in revenue and high paying jobs. Similar to what we did with car manufacturing.
Uh I mean yes Boeing is kind of a mess right now, but it's ridiculous to argue that having Boeing based in the US isn't an enormous strategic advantage. Can you imagine a world where US airlines had to depend on either Airbus or Sukhoi planes? Do you really think that would be better?
> Can you imagine a world where US airlines had to depend on either Airbus or Sukhoi planes? Do you really think that would be better?
Are we going to pretend 737MAX wasn't grounded for a year and half after 2 devastating crashes killing 346 people? I think a world without Boeing would have been clearly better?
Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tariffs on products we don't have immediate domestic manufacturing capacity for will hurt the economy in the short term, which is not a great move during a period of rising inflation. It's a tough decision though, because it does feel like the better move for the long term.
The US still produces a lot of computer chips… Intel is still a very large player in chips and dominate in some areas. Even TI which has tons of fabs (not highest end) as well. I don’t really understand this.
TI's fabs are mainly focused on analog, so the requirements are a bit different. IIRC we have 3 130-65nm layers for digital in our mixed signal designs which is roughly on par with a the process technology Intel used in 2005.
Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or, chips just become 20% more expensive in the US and the consumer loses... and the US still doesn't gain supply chain security. I don't think tariffs will work when the alternative requires massive outlay of capital and decades to recoup. Not to mention, there is no reality where manufacturing these chips in the US costs less than Taiwan, for example. There is no reason to build a fab in the US with the current eco…
>> Or, chips just become 20% more expensive in the US and the consumer loses... and the US still doesn't gain supply chain security. Push it up 50 percent. This quarter trillion dollars is going straight on the debt pile so it will hurt a lot, just not today.
Without getting political - does it even matter anymore? Trillions of dollars were just thrown out the window to whoever could catch some... and few if anyone has any idea where most of it actually went.
At least this money will have a tangible, appreciable outcome. Supply chain security for such critical things such as chips is really hard to overstate the importance of for the US.