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Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#31

Post by lettergram »

Alupis wrote: post #25
01100011 wrote: post #16

Such a monumental scam and a gross theft from taxpayers. Companies making billions of dollars in profits don't need free money. I could be onboard with a subsidized loan, but handouts are not needed. FWIW, I work at a company that stands to benefit from this bill. Does the US need to secure reliable semiconductor supply chains free of China? Sure. This is not the most cost effective way to do it.

Clearly, handouts are needed to force/incentivize these companies to build new fabs in the continental US. Otherwise they would have built them under their own gumption by now. When there is no clear benefit for the company to fab chips in the continental US, and a lot of clear negatives (cost, regulations, etc) - you have to do something to outweigh the cons. If the US had been an amazing place to fab chips already,…

Alternatively, you add a 20% tax on CPUs made outside the US. That would incentivize the fans manufactured in the US even if it’s a foreign company.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#32

Post by Cuuugi »

lettergram wrote: post #26

I disagree that subsidizing R&D to a few companies is going to make us more competitive. Look at GE or Boeing, it didn’t work out. What works is a free market. Raise import costs on CPUs and you’ll incentivize building in the US and more companies to form. It costs $0 tax dollars and brings in revenue and high paying jobs. Similar to what we did with car manufacturing.

"What works is a free market. Raise import costs on CPUs and you’ll incentivize building in the US and more companies to form."

Is the market really free with tariffs?

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#33

Post by Alupis »

lettergram wrote: post #31
Alupis wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly, handouts are needed to force/incentivize these companies to build new fabs in the continental US. Otherwise they would have built them under their own gumption by now. When there is no clear benefit for the company to fab chips in the continental US, and a lot of clear negatives (cost, regulations, etc) - you have to do something to outweigh the cons. If the US had been an amazing place to fab chips already,…

Alternatively, you add a 20% tax on CPUs made outside the US. That would incentivize the fans manufactured in the US even if it’s a foreign company.

Or, chips just become 20% more expensive in the US and the consumer loses... and the US still doesn't gain supply chain security.

I don't think tariffs will work when the alternative requires massive outlay of capital and decades to recoup.

Not to mention, there is no reality where manufacturing these chips in the US costs less than Taiwan, for example. There is no reason to build a fab in the US with the current economic and regulatory climate. So... we have to force it to happen... which is what this bill does.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#34

Post by vxNsr »

The sane way to do this would have been to give the handouts on condition of no stock buybacks for 10 years and cap total exec compensation for similar amount of time for any company that accepts the handouts.

This should be true for any company that accepts gov money.

The gov doesn't give money to benefit the stockholders, they’re doing it to benefit the larger economy and country. Stock holder shouldn’t even be considered as beneficiaries in these deals.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#35

Post by wbsss4412 »

Cuuugi wrote: post #32
lettergram wrote: post #26

I disagree that subsidizing R&D to a few companies is going to make us more competitive. Look at GE or Boeing, it didn’t work out. What works is a free market. Raise import costs on CPUs and you’ll incentivize building in the US and more companies to form. It costs $0 tax dollars and brings in revenue and high paying jobs. Similar to what we did with car manufacturing.

"What works is a free market. Raise import costs on CPUs and you’ll incentivize building in the US and more companies to form." Is the market really free with tariffs?

It definitely isn’t, but at this point “free market” has been watered down so heavily it gets used improperly all the time.

It’s more of a political slogan than an actual policy.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#36

Post by trevorboaconstr »

jasondc wrote: post #15

The beginning of the undoing of globalization, countries will start bringing industries back home with bills like this.

No, I don’t think so. The last few years have been no more than a speed bump in the 100 year trend of increased global interconnection.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#37

Post by WebbWeaver »

pm90 wrote: post #20

WaPo article, which has more details about the bill and less details about what different “personalities” are saying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/27/senate-ch... . Overall, it looks great. We absolutely need to fund more semiconductor manufacturing. Losing that ability to China/Taiwan was just a terrible strategic mistake. The US hasn’t lost this battle (over semiconductors) just yet. While curren…

Can we not frame this as a battle or even a war? The US lost this capability a long time ago due to labor costs and natural resource consumption.

From the labor cost and natural resource consumption a operation of this size can easily fail. We need more partners in this not just a handout.

This action should have little to no input on any globalized leverage system.

For this to be successful we need more partners

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#38

Post by StillBored »

Oh, joy more money to monopolistic companies.

This is completely the wrong way to go about it (tax individuals and give the money to big corps). If you want a protectionist measure then implement a protectionist measure, like I don't know, tariffs.

Yet another bill that follows at least the last 40 years of congress doing exactly the wrong thing. (and to be clear this isn't a rant against the Democrats).

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#39

Post by ParksNet »

Banning Proof of Work cryptocurrencies from being traded on licensed exchanges would achieve the same improvement of chip availability, as well as saving a huge amount of electricity, for $0.

I guess sensible measures like this don't boost the share portfolios of politicians' spouses though.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#40

Post by yieldcrv »

01100011 wrote: post #16

Such a monumental scam and a gross theft from taxpayers. Companies making billions of dollars in profits don't need free money. I could be onboard with a subsidized loan, but handouts are not needed. FWIW, I work at a company that stands to benefit from this bill. Does the US need to secure reliable semiconductor supply chains free of China? Sure. This is not the most cost effective way to do it.

Often times the people in any individual nation don't want to hear it, but nations are in competition with each other to attract business.

This undermines any other function of what people think a government is there for and the system that government operates under. If people were told anything else, they were told a lie.

There are different people operating under more effective set of rules, and they can pit countries against each other to sweeten the deal of operating within that country.

Its just simply a more effective set of rules than whatever people were taught in their civics class, or by an animated sheet of paper singing about how bills are formed.

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