Live data from Hacker News

Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

extremetech.com

51–60 of 194 posts

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#51
post #42
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And best of all, it's not going to pull the UI rug out from under you at a moment's notice.

I am capable of installing and uninstalling packages with apt-get, so I am not heavily dependent on Ubuntu to determine the UI for me. And I have no problem changing UIs (I used to use Enlightenment from DR13 or so) So when a default changes away from something designed to look like Windows XP, I do not get emotionally scarred. I gather this is unusual, however, and Ubuntu's user base consists mostly of people who ar…

The comment was in response to "Why switch to XFCE? Can't you just install Gnome?".

GNOME 3 most definitely "pulls the UI rug" with massive, controversial changes from previous versions. XFCE has yet to do anything like this.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#52
post #3

What's wrong with sticking to an older version of Ubuntu - 11.04 or earlier where you're not forced to use Unity? That's what I do. And I get a lot more work done without having to worry with the latest shiny new toys in town.

What's wrong with selecting "Gnome" as a desktop rather than Unity when logging in? It's literally 2 clicks to change.

Have you tried Ubuntu 11.10? Where are those 2 clicks?

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#53

For those who don't want to shift to a new distro, Xubuntu is a great option. It's lightweight without losing any of the features you've come to expect from a fully-featured DE. And best of all, it's not going to pull the UI rug out from under you at a moment's notice.

Lubuntu is also a great option and lighter weight than xubuntu. I just switched from ubuntu to lubuntu and am happy with the switch.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#55
post #16
post #9

It reminds me of the die-hard KDE users and Kubuntu. I think Canonical did well with the creation of Ubuntu, which made it possible to throw a Linux desktop at a newbie user for the first time. From the sounds of it, Unity hasn't lost that angle. Since it's actively looking at tablets, I think they are here to stay. With tablet hardware getting more powerful, it could be surviving contender to iOS and Android.

Extremely doubtful that we'll see Ubuntu as a contender to iOS and Android. If you're going to run linux on a tablet-sized device, why not just use Android? It has an existing application store(s), and more importantly an existing userbase. Look at WebOS, if there's any competition out there to compete with Android or iOS WebOS would be the best option. From everything I've seen and heard it is quite fantastic. If no…

Android is 'built on' Linux but it doesn't expose Linux to users in any remotely meaningful way (contrast, for example, with Maemo).

I agree with you that it's doubtful, but if Ubuntu doesn't do it then I just don't think it can be done - Fedora and Debian aren't even going to try and most other distros don't even have the resources to start.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#56
Personally I found it a bit snarky. By the same token I find that UI wars are the most vitriolic, after all they are the way you talk to the machine day in and day out. Screwing with that, screws with everything.

I have found Ubuntu's strategy interesting because it seemed clear that while KDE was following general guidelines around Microsoft OSes to be more accessible, and Gnome was following general guidelines around Apple OSes for similar reasons, Canonical sort of 'turned left' and drove off the road to a new place.

I remember distinctly when I left Sun and had to give up my Suntools interface for what became Windows98 at the time. And it was hokey and painful and it crashed a lot, except that over the weeks and months it crashed less and less, all without a software update :-). And I realized it was not so subtley training me not to use features that failed. Of course if you use something long enough you become reasonably facile with it. When I switched my desktop to Linux I was always more comfortable with KDE for that reason, the whole 'start' menu on the lower left, the control panel abstraction, the way things laid out on the screen.

When I went to Google I got a Macbook as my laptop choice, it was different, and I struggled at first, but once I became reasonably good at navigating around I found that I was also less annoyed with Gnome.

I think the Unity strategy at Canonical will pay them big dividends. Mostly because the Linux desktop market has been such a small part of the whole desktop market as to barely merit a full pixel width in a pie chart of desktop OSes. I believe that part of the reason for that is that the strategy of being 'kinda like' MacOS or Windows in the GUI has failed Linux badly when it comes to non-technical users. It failed them because there was neither the cohesion of implementation, nor the quality of testing, in either KDE or Gnome which would ever cause a non-technical user to think the GUI was 'better' than the one they left behind. Unity breaks that cycle because it doesn't work like the GUI you used to use. and so I think users cut it some slack, they realize they are in a 'new' place and learn how to do the things that they want to do in the way that this gui does them. And there isn't a mental comparison to their previous gui because it wasn't like this at all.

Assuming, and its a big assumption, that Canonical can execute on the Unity strategy well, it will continue to be the dominant Linux distro. Further it will increasingly leave behind every other distro, because while others may trade off market share amongst the technical users, where programmers slosh from one to the next, Unity will be gaining non-technical users who won't go anywhere else in the Linux space. Ever.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#57
post #9

It reminds me of the die-hard KDE users and Kubuntu. I think Canonical did well with the creation of Ubuntu, which made it possible to throw a Linux desktop at a newbie user for the first time. From the sounds of it, Unity hasn't lost that angle. Since it's actively looking at tablets, I think they are here to stay. With tablet hardware getting more powerful, it could be surviving contender to iOS and Android.

In my opinion its a gamble by Canonical. Patent royalty fees level the mobile and tablet playing field. Why would any hardware manufacturer use Unity/Ubuntu when they could either use Android from Google, or fork the code base like Amazon and the Chinese are doing. Likewise Microsoft will likely subsidize manufacturers to use their Metro OS, which Canonical cannot match. A key is how to monetize content delivery and…

One thing Linux has is that it lets the user control and customize their system, and it lets an ecosystem develop where new system behavior can be created.

Not present on Android and certainly not on iOS.

But you probably don't value that if your concern is how to monetize content delivery.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#58
One of Paul's imperatives is to make a few people very happy rather than a lot of people kind of happy. That in mind, I think this is a good move for Canonical to move to Unity in 11.10. If people want the user-friendliness of GNOME, they can go to other linux distributions. But Canonical is doing well with open source technology - they've actually moved linux to something beyond the more savvy users and hackers - it's accessible to anyone used to Windows, with a bit of tweaking. I don't think they should stick with what's safe just because it's ubiquitous. They can't directly compete with Apple and Microsoft, so experimenting with what Linux can be specialized in or how to make it unique are worth disappointing a few users, I think.

(EDIT): I forgot to mention, I also don't think changing UI will affect Canonical because of past history with it. Facebook has a mass of complaints every time ot changes, but it's still growing every day. The two examples don't entirely match up, but I think the same will apply to Canonical.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#59

Canonical is genuinely trying to make linux the most user friendly it's ever been and make it ready for real mass adoption. It's not going to be easy and not everyone is going to like every change but you can't get so down on them for trying so hard. Saying the solution is to go backwards is the same as telling canonical to just stop trying all together. There's no point in stagnating and sticking with gnome. New use…

All that being said; you can install gnome in ubuntu 11.10. You don't have to use unity.

If it were this easy, nobody would be complaining. But as far as I can tell, Gnome Classic (without HW accel) is broken by default on Ubuntu 11.10, with the default Gnome Panel being entirely messed up.

This wasn't the case in 11.04, which had a great fallback that I still use daily, and I think it's the reason the Unity complaints are getting louder: there's no longer a real alternative to it in 11.10. At least not from Canonical.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#60
Sounds like the forced search from Mint would be annoying.

The real problem I have with Unity is the lack of a Focus-Follows-Mouse setting. Possibly there is some hidden settings I could change, but that's a deal breaker. Even Windows7 has a registry setting for this I use.

I installed a different windows manager on 11.10 and login with the user default from the login screen, wasn't that big a deal. I load AfterStep, but it's kind of a cluster out of the box and I'm thinking of going to something else. Back in the day spending hours getting my window manager running exactly 'so' wasn't a big deal, but it's not so fun after a decade.

Post reply on HN