Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#631

Post by JustLurking2022 » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 2:01 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #538

JustLurking2022 wrote: post #32

The tweets indicate it was "badged a 90". Seems odd/unlikely Tesla actually changed out the badging on a battery replacement, in which case someone else committed fraud.

Yes, someone may have committed fraud. That has no bearing whatsoever on the basic problem here, however, which is a car manufacturer retroactively changing the configuration profile on a car sold nearly a decade ago.

Except that's not what happened... When the car was sold, it had the lower range. If it was resold with that same lower range expectation then, while slightly frustrating, the buyer would not have an expectation of the greater range, so it would be more like when the cable company takes away those extra channels your original technician enabled with a wink and a nod - you knew you weren't really paying for them. The fraud created a false expectation.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#632

Post by misiti3780 » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

rurp wrote: post #461

misiti3780 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a tesla owner, this story does not make me want to unhook my car from the internet (Tesla did what was legally in their right to do, this is a nothing-burger.) I would imagine 99% of other Tesla owners feel them same. You feeling nostalgia for the good old days with MapQuest?

Sounds like you are Tesla's ideal customer! Most people I know don't want to have to worry about the manufacturer suddenly crippling their car's functionality months after they bought it from a private party.

I get it, it sucks, but since every car is going to support over the air updates in the coming years, it's unavoidable unless you want to drive an old ICE car.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#633

Post by undersuit » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 3:04 PM UTC

account42 wrote: post #624

undersuit wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were some very powerful software upgrades you could preform on GPUs... https://verrytechnical.info/safely-unlocking-extra-shaders-i... Would AMD have been in the right to force a bios downgrade in the next driver release? Also that LTT and a related Gamers Nexus video convinced me to buy an obviously counterfeit "Nvidia GTX 970" from ebay, report the seller for the sale, I got to keep it, I got refunded, and th…

> Also that LTT and a related Gamers Nexus video convinced me to buy an obviously counterfeit "Nvidia GTX 970" from ebay, report the seller for the sale, I got to keep it, I got refunded, and then with the money I bought a bios writer and flashed the card back to a "Nvidia GTX 550 Ti". So you defrauded someone and are proud of it? That they were themselves a fraudster does not make your actions right and you SHOULD r…

They defrauded me! I didn't know I was buying a Nvidia GTX 550 Ti 1GB with only 1 of 3 working outputs. The bios they flashed even caused crashes because it reported the card had 2 GB of VRAM which the OS would actually try to use.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#634

Post by mlyle » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

bena wrote: post #629

mlyle wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or. And I know this is radical. But stop selling the 6 core and sell the 8 core for the price of the 6. But you still get some 6 core parts-- just not enough to meet demand. In general, suppliers prefer modulating the mix of supply of their products entering the retail chain over endlessly modulating pricing to try and match demand. > Why are we justifying these corporations taking us for a ride? Well, one fundamen…

The demand for 6 core over 8 core is simply because the 6 core costs less than the 8 core. If the 8 core cost the same as the 6 core, you'd buy the 8.

> The demand for 6 core over 8 core is simply because the 6 core costs less than the 8 core. If the 8 core cost the same as the 6 core, you'd buy the 8.

I don't really understand your comment in the context of our discussion-- we're talking about price discrimination. The whole point is that you have different prices for different segments to match demand. So, yes, of course.

Initially, you set the 6 core price and 8 core prices to match actual production yields.

Later, as your yields improve, you use the different SKUs for price discrimination, which captures some of consumer surplus (ewww) and eliminates deadweight losses (yay).

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#635

Post by bgirard » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

thfuran wrote: post #616

bgirard wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my original language was unclear. Let me rephrase it to: It's a prudent assumption for an educated buyer to expect a lock feature that was unlocked accidentally to become locked again later knowing companies like Tesla and their customer service track record. I agree that Tesla taking it away after a long period of time is unreasonable.

Why should they assume that it was unlocked accidentally?

I'm not saying they should assume. I'm stating that if the seller clearly knew, then it should be represent correctly at the time of the sale.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#636

Post by bena » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 4:26 PM UTC

mlyle wrote: post #634

bena wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The demand for 6 core over 8 core is simply because the 6 core costs less than the 8 core. If the 8 core cost the same as the 6 core, you'd buy the 8.

> The demand for 6 core over 8 core is simply because the 6 core costs less than the 8 core. If the 8 core cost the same as the 6 core, you'd buy the 8. I don't really understand your comment in the context of our discussion-- we're talking about price discrimination. The whole point is that you have different prices for different segments to match demand. So, yes, of course. Initially, you set the 6 core price and 8…

I'm saying get rid of the 6 core product line when it's just as effective to artificially limit the better product just to have inventory.

You know, like how we don't make 486DX2 chips anymore.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#637

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

bena wrote: post #630

Dylan16807 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, like I was trying to say, simplify it even further. Make it exactly the same product, some sold at price A and some sold at price B. Just because I can afford to sell some at a cheaper price doesn't mean I can afford to sell all of them at a cheaper price. Right? We can take issue with the software lock without saying something silly like "the lowest price must be the correct price". Sometimes the lowest price…

That just means both of your prices are wrong.

Yeah, basically, that's my entire argument.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#638

Post by mlyle » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

bena wrote: post #636

mlyle wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The demand for 6 core over 8 core is simply because the 6 core costs less than the 8 core. If the 8 core cost the same as the 6 core, you'd buy the 8. I don't really understand your comment in the context of our discussion-- we're talking about price discrimination. The whole point is that you have different prices for different segments to match demand. So, yes, of course. Initially, you set the 6 core price and 8…

I'm saying get rid of the 6 core product line when it's just as effective to artificially limit the better product just to have inventory. You know, like how we don't make 486DX2 chips anymore.

> I'm saying get rid of the 6 core product line when it's just as effective to artificially limit the better product just to have inventory.

Not everyone is willing to pay the same price. If there's a market for 100k processors at $200 each, there could easily be a market for 50k slower processors at $150 each and 80k processors at $250 each. If yields are 95% at 8 core and 100% at 6 core:

* The firm gets to make $7.5M more revenue

* The firm avoids waste of about 5000 processors in the single-price, 8-core-only scenario.

* The world gets 30,000 more processors vs. what the firm would make if they only could choose one price to optimize income

* The firm has flexibility on meeting demand: they can alter the mix of 8 and 6 core processors they sell instead of frequently modifying price.

This is a simple scenario, but it shows the reason for price discrimination: it generates more revenue and it also encourages a monopoly or a participant in monopolistic competition to make more product.

30,000 people who wouldn't have gotten a processor in the prior case now get one, and 20,000 people who would have otherwise gotten a high cost processor now spend less money.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#639

Post by zardo » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

spiznnx wrote: post #475

cortesoft wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They actually did this with my tires on my Model X. I ordered mine with the standard tires, then they called me to say they had my exact order that someone cancelled, except it had the upgraded tire package. They originally said they were going to remove them when I picked it up, but they ended up just leaving them on and saying it was a free upgrade.

Good thing you don't have to worry about tires being remotely crippled :)

Bring it in for service, "Looks like there was configuration problem on your car, we had the tech swap on the correct tires for you."

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#640

Post by panopticon » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 6:15 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #508

panopticon wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the ETA wasn't incredibly important to me for planning purposes. It was just nice to know that I was getting in . As opposed to "keep calling and maybe we'll have a Hyundai Ioniq allocated to us that'll arrive a month or two after, oh an enjoy your $10k 'market rate adjustment' to the MSRP." Fwiw my car was delivered in the middle half of the original ETA, but I know that others have had lots of issues with the…

You can order a new car, configured as you like, with almost any brand. You'll get an ETA and a tracker that shows when it's going into production, when it's leaving the factory, when it's on a ship/boat/truck to your dealer, and when it's ready for pickup. You can get most dealers to agree in writing not to add any markups if you reserve a car with their dealership as the delivery point. That's how most people are b…

You technically can sometimes, but in my experience it's really difficult to actually do that. Dealerships get limited custom order bank allocations, and if you're not really early when the MY order bank opens your order will potentially slip a model year or even more (at least for in-demand models).

For Hyundai specifically I was looking for the Limited trim, and I've been told they're only allocating custom orders to dealerships with level 3 chargers. And even then the order bank for MY 2022 had already been closed when I started shopping around. I would have had to wait for the MY 2023 bank to open.