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Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

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Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#251

Post by HWR_14 »

balls187 wrote: post #155
HWR_14 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proper analogy is that your Alienware breaks, and Alienware replaces your RTX3080 with a 3080Ti. When you resell it, you can and should identify it as an Alienware with a 3080Ti.

Upon closer analysis, all analogies will break down. I'd argue the car in the sumtotal of all the parts in it. So rather your analogy about Alienware is: You own a dell gaming pc. Under warranty repair, Dell replaces some of the parts with parts from an Alienware build. Are you allowed to put on Alienware decals on your Dell desktop and re-sell it as an Alienware?

> I'd argue the car in the sumtotal of all the parts in it.

It seems like you're agreeing with me and creating a less appropriate analogy at the same time.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#252

Post by speedgoose »

crooked-v wrote: post #132
speedgoose wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s convenient though. You get live traffic data, international radio in high quality, maps with background pictures, music and video streaming, the possibility to pre-heat or pre-cool the car while walking to it and a few other things.

On the other hand, with CarPlay/Android Auto I can get 95% of that without needing to depend on the usually-shitty infotainment software.

I’m not a fan of connectivity issues but I agree that the concept is interesting.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#253

Post by mlyle »

IronWolve wrote: post #119
mlyle wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I stated in my comment: this is true at the beginning of a process node with a new design. But yields improve, and eventually you end up with too many parts in the high bins and nowhere near enough in the value bins-- so you end up blowing fuses on parts that test fully OK to make them be 4 cores or 6 cores. (And now, Intel is about to let Xeon customers pay to unlock additional cores...)

I was going to mention this also, software defined processors, where you have to pay intel to unlock features. But the original buyer unlocks and sells the PC, it should revert to the stock and limited cpu. Here they gave the owner a 90, then came back and limited it to 60, after the fact, years later.

> Here they gave the owner a 90, then came back and limited it to 60, after the fact, years later.

Yah. And the buyer was a buyer in good faith of a 90 product that no one expected to be snapped down to a 60 artificially afterwards. I agree this is very problematic.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#254

Post by AinderS »

cameronh90 wrote: post #219
10000truths wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of justification would never fly if we were talking about modding ICE vehicles: * Illegal to replace your own brake rotors or pads, as faulty ones can cause safety issues. * Illegal to replace your own headlights, as bad ones could be too dim or too bright and cause safety issues. * Illegal to change your own oil, as bad ones could seize up your engine in the middle of the road and cause safety issues. * Il…

In the UK, many modifications are restricted. For example, if I was to replace my halogen car headlights with LED ones, the car would be technically illegal, uninsured and fail inspection (if they notice). Exhausts can't be noisier than factory, which means in practice all aftermarket sports exhausts are illegal. At some point, I assume modifying drive-by-wire systems will become legally restricted.

You are talking about something subtly but crucially different. Replacing your headlights is not illegal, only the type of headlight you use is legally restricted. Modification itself is not legally restricted, only the end result.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#255

Post by ben7799 »

panopticon wrote: post #52
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A year ago, I would have chosen a new Tesla, hands down (disclosure: I am probably not gonna actually buy an EV for as many years as I can eke out of my trusty Subie). Nowadays, I have chatted with numerous folks that have purchased alternative EVs. The Tesla owners still seem the giddiest (There's a lot of 'em around here), but I have not heard one ounce of buyer's remorse from any of the other brands. The one that…

I bought an EV earlier this year. I ended up with a LR Model 3 because the dealership model really sucks still. I called Hyundai and VW dealerships in the tri-state area around me, and none of them could say when I'd be able to actually get a car. Instead I went to Tesla's website, placed an order, and got an ETA. Super simple; loved that experience. If it weren't for the crappy dealership model I probably would have…

I guess it's just in which inconvenience you pick.

It seems like there is no EV that is free of something stupid that the car manufacturer is making you put up with.

Maybe Tesla it's these general annoyances. Or collision repair or out of warranty service annoyances.

I test drove a VW ID.4. It sounds like if I bought one I might deal with annoyances (markups, delays) trying to buy the car because dealers are annoying. The flip side is if I bought one and it needs service I can walk home from the local VW dealer to my house pretty quickly. Hyper Local service is rather nice.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#256

Post by speedgoose »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #127
speedgoose wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s convenient though. You get live traffic data, international radio in high quality, maps with background pictures, music and video streaming, the possibility to pre-heat or pre-cool the car while walking to it and a few other things.

Or... you can just use your phone + Android Auto / CarPlay. You will achieve same effect without connecting your car to the internet. And I will rather sacrifice preheating / precooling if it means, that I will keep control over my car.

It’s difficult to sacrifice that once you experience it.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#257

Post by ratg13 »

Animats wrote: post #116
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #35

Reason 547 why you should not connect your car to the internet. Today it is limiting range because mistake several years ago, tomorrow it will be mandatory ads every time when you start a car.

The trouble is, the new buyer can't charge the thing from a Tesla station until they have a "Tesla account", which means accepting Tesla's EULA, which means giving them control of the vehicle again. Muahahaha! Now, if someone bought the vehicle, and never signed up for a Tesla account, they might have a good criminal case for "exceeds authorized access" under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. Because the original own…

You can literally just take the sim card out of the vehicle.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#258

Post by HWR_14 »

colpabar wrote: post #188
balls187 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upon closer analysis, all analogies will break down. I'd argue the car in the sumtotal of all the parts in it. So rather your analogy about Alienware is: You own a dell gaming pc. Under warranty repair, Dell replaces some of the parts with parts from an Alienware build. Are you allowed to put on Alienware decals on your Dell desktop and re-sell it as an Alienware?

> Upon closer analysis, all analogies will break down so how about you just explain your position so that other people who don't know the difference between an RTX3080 and a 3080ti can also participate

The difference is irrelevant. It could be any part replaced under warranty. The point is they both fulfill the same function (graphics card), take the same slot on the motherboard and the 3080Ti is better.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#259

Post by hinkley »

astrange wrote: post #232
hinkley wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone called him out on twitter for his flirtation with toxic conservatism. They asked if he remembers what demographic buys 99% of his vehicles. I didn’t see if he replied.

He needs electric vehicles to be associated with conservatism, otherwise they're going to ban them and make rolling coal mandatory. It's probably the greatest thing he could do for climate change.

If you piss off your current customer base before you land the new one you'll be filing for bankruptcy protection before you know it.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#260

Post by zozbot234 »

jabbany wrote: post #227
gambiting wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> (I'm assuming that Tesla only made the owner pay the cost of the 60 battery swap even though they replaced it with a 90) It says right there that it was done under warranty. If my RTX3080 breaks, and Nvidia sends me a 3080Ti as a replacement(because maybe they don't have any 3080 in stock) then no, they can't lock it down to 3080 level 3 years later with a software update. And yes, I'm allowed to sell it on as a 3…

> no, they can't lock it down to 3080 level 3 years later with a software update I think the problem is that there are 2 different types of "can't": can't as in technologically impossible, and can't as in legally disallowed. In the past, the former was usually the case. Vendors literally could not technologically take away features because things either were not controlled by software or software could not tell the h…

> I think the problem is that there are 2 different types of "can't": can't as in technologically impossible, and can't as in legally disallowed.

Exactly. Bait and switch is legally disallowed, even when technically possible.

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