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The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

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Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#481

Post by registeredcorn »

ajross wrote: post #431
registeredcorn wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct, of course. I think the point that was being made was more about people actively choosing to use open source. If you were to approach a non-tech person and ask them how many open source apps they use on a daily basis, they would probably say "none", even if it's not the case.

I'll point out that you're still doing the thing where you equate "software" with "apps". But even so, that doesn't seem informative. Ask any user how many "Qualcomm apps" they use, or "Meta apps", or "Intel apps". No one knows where this stuff comes from. They buy a phone with a label on the box and then download stuff from an app store. That's not a statement about how the software is produced, it's just how the ma…

> I'll point out that you're still doing the thing where you equate "software" with "apps".

Can you explain what you mean by this? As far as I am aware, an application (aka "app") is a piece of software.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#482

Post by RedComet »

geysersam wrote: post #141
RedComet wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> pornographic examples in it I can't fathom a math textbook with pornographic examples. Is this a thing in the US?

Not that I'm aware of. I said that is the _future_ there.

Judging by all of the convenient misreading and straw manning in the replies, many of you must know it is coming too.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#483

Post by Ruq »

Security can be used to create both a safe, and a jail. Remember that.

---

I think Microsoft feels threatened at this point about Linux becoming more popular on PCs; what with hardware like the Steam Deck. Can't have Linux dominate the PC platform if you forcefully bind all hardware to the Windows ecosystem. Imagine if back in the day Microsoft used their dominance to block out all competing software on PCs but their own.

---

I can see a dystopian future where Government can enforce code/file signing with technologies like this (DRM), so that you can never again have an open computing platform; you could only ever use code or view files approved by the State, and if you try to write code or create content, it won't work period unless it is first approved by the State. (such as with an AI scanning tool to detect and block "wrong-think" or "dangerous functionality" (i.e. dissent or otherwise that threatens the powers that be))

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#484

Post by sandworm101 »

Ruq wrote: post #483

Security can be used to create both a safe, and a jail. Remember that. --- I think Microsoft feels threatened at this point about Linux becoming more popular on PCs; what with hardware like the Steam Deck. Can't have Linux dominate the PC platform if you forcefully bind all hardware to the Windows ecosystem. Imagine if back in the day Microsoft used their dominance to block out all competing software on PCs but their…

Don't worry. Linux will always run on server hardware. We will just learn how to build rack-mounted gaming PCs.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#486

Post by sandworm101 »

dx034 wrote: post #236
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The capacity for abuse is huge, way beyong the potential benefits. From the USA, we get news of banned book in some states. When I read that, my head goes back to my european history, and I reach the Godwin point very quickly. Those kind of people will abuse such system to prevent things to be shared. It will be used for putting DRM on everything and create a more and more closed web. It will be used by corporations…

> From the USA, we get news of banned book in some states. When I read that, my head goes back to my european history, and I reach the Godwin point very quickly. Books are not banned, just not used in the classroom anymore. While the reasons for it may be wrong, it's something that happens constantly all over the world. No one prevents children or adults to read those books at home. Banning books could mean that owni…

Books are just information. Information gets banned all the time. Old-timers will remember this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Flag

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#487

Post by Ruq »

sandworm101 wrote: post #484
Ruq wrote: post #483

Security can be used to create both a safe, and a jail. Remember that. --- I think Microsoft feels threatened at this point about Linux becoming more popular on PCs; what with hardware like the Steam Deck. Can't have Linux dominate the PC platform if you forcefully bind all hardware to the Windows ecosystem. Imagine if back in the day Microsoft used their dominance to block out all competing software on PCs but their…

Don't worry. Linux will always run on server hardware. We will just learn how to build rack-mounted gaming PCs.

This made me laugh.

I also look forward to the potential of open technologies like what RISC-V appears to enable. It's not all bad for sure.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#488

Post by bilkow »

vel0city wrote: post #476
bilkow wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all just giving away control to corporations. Freedom is about having the option, not using it. Even if most "regular users" never use it, if they ever change their mind they'll surely appreciate having it. It also affects the ability to develop new hardware, and being locked to hardware/software approved by the remote side (e.g. Facebook or whichever app/site you're using) is a pretty Dystopian reality. > My…

If all clients interfacing with the bank's API are required to prove they're locked down devices running proven official clients it reduces the potential attack surface. Lowering the attack surface increases the security. If the market really cared about being able to run whatever software you wanted, nobody would be buying iPhones. Fire TV sticks and Rokus wouldn't move any products. Playstations, Xboxes, and Ninten…

> I think you're massively overestimating the market size of people who actually care. Note that I'm not making any moral argument here, I'm not saying whether these things are good or bad.

I think we're just discussing different things here then. I'm specifically talking about whether this is good or bad for the future of society. Most people buy whatever is most convenient at the time, which is fair and everyone has done this at some point, but it may or may not the best for society.

> I know lots of people who buy iPhones and iPads because they know the odds of accidentally getting malware on it is very low compared to alternatives. To them, locked down hardware is a selling point.

It may be a bubble, but of all the iPhone users I know, I don't think any of them has bought it for that reason. Most here buy them for either being simpler to use, lasting longer, or status. Of all the Android users I know, I don't know any that has knowingly got any kind of malware, and that includes people with very old phones.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#489

Post by ajross »

registeredcorn wrote: post #481
ajross wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll point out that you're still doing the thing where you equate "software" with "apps". But even so, that doesn't seem informative. Ask any user how many "Qualcomm apps" they use, or "Meta apps", or "Intel apps". No one knows where this stuff comes from. They buy a phone with a label on the box and then download stuff from an app store. That's not a statement about how the software is produced, it's just how the ma…

> I'll point out that you're still doing the thing where you equate "software" with "apps". Can you explain what you mean by this? As far as I am aware, an application (aka "app") is a piece of software.

Not all software is "apps", is the point.

You literally exercised huge amounts (seriously: millions of lines!) of open source code just now, in the process of posting that very comment and transmitting it to me to read.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#490

Post by phendrenad2 »

These paranoid delusions never get old. If Microsoft accidentally changes their license agreement to lorem ipsum, bloggers like this will surely be trying to decipher exactly how it steals their freedom. The fatal flaw in these posts is, as it always is, the blind assumption that Microsoft can just do whatever they want, unimpeded. If Microsoft declared, as an april 1st joke, that app PCs henceforth must be painted sky blue, these bloggers would take it seriously. They act as though Microsoft is the high priesthood of computers, and they can declare literally anything with the stroke of a pen. They act like Mac doesn't exist, cheap Linux computers don't exist, RISC-V (which doesn't even run Windows) doesn't exist. Non-Windows-compatible ARM devices don't exist. PC vendors are mindless drones that do whatever Microsoft tells them (even if it means losing billions of dollars to Apple) and they certainly aren't selling (Dell: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4847720) linux (HP: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31617198) laptops (Lenovo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28186204) right now (and don't even think about installing Linux on your Google Chromebook, it won't work! https://support.google.com/pixelbook/answer/9031351?hl=en ).

The usual rebuttal is "Well, yeah, things are fine NOW, but they're moving the chess pieces into place to do these things LATER". Yawn. I have heard this for 20+ years. See you in another 20...

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