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Saudi Crown Prince unveils plans for $500bn structure to house 9M people

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Re: Saudi Crown Prince unveils plans for $500bn structure to house 9M people

#211

Post by hansword »

helloworld11 wrote: post #199

Has nobody considered the possibility of such vast, shiny external reflector walls absolutely, very literally roasting the surrounding landscape when struck by the already ferocious Arabian sun? How would a person even survive openly coming close to this fascinating monstrosity from either side at certain times of the day? I remember a story about sunlight reflections bouncing from the "Walkie Talkie" Building in Lon…

You are missing the central point of the Walkie-Talkie and Disney-Concert-Hall controversies. These are Frank-Gehry(-style) buildings, and in those roughly half of all surfaces is a concave and half is a convex mirror. THIS concentration to one point is what turns the summer sun into death rays.

Reflected sun, by definition, has a little less energy than direct sun. So, given the mirror walls are straight, as the designs show, you get (at maximum) 200% of normal desert sun energy, which isn't comfortable, but not a Gehry-style death ray.

Re: Saudi Crown Prince unveils plans for $500bn structure to house 9M people

#212

Post by sylware »

In efficient and mostly essential-focused civilization, enough money for a decent living cannot flow to households by only abiding to the supply-and-demand economic rules: this is dangerous to believe in such utopia, it is similar to the soviet one.

It is even more accute when related to being able to afford an accomodation: countries and cities around the world are increasing significantly their public housing share, to a point private housing becomes the lesser way.

Heard Singapore is at 80% and Vienna at 65%. But here, we are talking about Singapore and Austrian cultures, in which that amount of public housing could work, in many other cultures you will end up with unmaintained slums.

Re: Saudi Crown Prince unveils plans for $500bn structure to house 9M people

#214

Post by sigmoid10 »

survirtual wrote: post #188
sigmoid10 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sure hope not. We know that the future of Star Trek only becomes possible after our current society totally collapses, culminating in World War III. TBF, razing everything to the ground and rebuilding society with modern tech in mind is probably a lot faster and more efficient, but I still wouldn't want to live in the "transition" phase.

Just because the Star Trek universe had WWIII doesn’t mean we have to. I would like to live in Star Trek via the path of least suffering, but whatever path, it is the future I wish for generations to come regardless the struggle I personally have to endure. To wish the current system upon children and children’s children is selfish and cruel beyond imagination. If people wanted, we could all wake up tomorrow and begi…

That's easy to say if the bombs are not falling on your head. And I'm also not so sure that the current system can save itself from within. Evolution has navigated us into a dead by favouring immediate benefits over long term ones, now that our influence on the planet transcends our own lifetime. Getting out of that will require something pretty radical.

Re: Saudi Crown Prince unveils plans for $500bn structure to house 9M people

#215

Post by webmobdev »

mihaic wrote: post #206

To not assume complete stupidity, I'd imagine the Saudi's are looking at Dubai's success in locking in foreign capital into real-estate speculation, and want to imitate that. I'm sure they're hoping to stir up interest and lock in as much speculative commitment before anything is done and are treating it like the world is their Softbank. Doing this while being surrounded by yes-men and not being grounded in reality i…

Saudi Arabia has a looooong way to go before they can imitate Dubai's (or even the whole of UAE's success). One of the key to Dubai's success is that it's cultural climate is not restrictive and not as repressive as other countries of the middle-east (even the other emirates in UAE are way more open then Saudi Arabia). Compare that with the outlook of Saudi Arabia who think that women need to be segregated into their own city to be allowed to work ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/aug/12/saudi-arabia-c... )! Even muslims from many asian countries that make up the majority of expats working in the middle-east find Saudi Arabia's version of "Islamic Society" repressive (why wouldn't they - imagine not allowing muslim women to work because of their warped understanding of Islam, when the Islamic Prophet's first wife was an international business women who was once also his boss - https://www.news18.com/news/opinion/not-just-a-footnote-prop... !). Speaking anecdotally, I know many who work in the middle-east, who have declined to work in Saudi Arabia despite better pay, simply because they are concerned about the cultural environment of Saudi.

Re: Saudi Crown Prince unveils plans for $500bn structure to house 9M people

#216

Post by ouid »

lr wrote: post #161
lordnacho wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine works on the NEOM project, and it really is like winning the lottery. Remote work with an occasional field trip to look at the place. But Google level salary to tell them how to save some data. The scale of the feeding trough is unimaginable. I saw an advert for NEOM on Piccadilly Circus, the whole entire e-wall, and the place isn't even built yet, so I'm not sure if they're using it to recruit. It's…

People can’t seem to get enough of science fiction, but every time something is presented that would move the needle in that direction, the detractors line up in droves. With attitudes like this, it really will be the 25th century before humanity does do anything of significance (if we even live that long).

Which science fiction are you referring to? Neom is the manic fantasy of an extraordinarily depraved trillionaire.

Re: Saudi Crown Prince unveils plans for $500bn structure to house 9M people

#217

Post by ouid »

Dan42 wrote: post #125

I doubt it will get built, but they really have people who understand the fundamental concepts behind Arcology. Honestly I'm surprised at how many parts of the design are well thought-out and well adapted to the desert environment. Sunlight from the sides, but not so much that it overheats the city. Heat escapes up. 5-minute walkable neighborhoods. The proximity to services of cities combined with the roominess of su…

have you read anything about the proposed legal structure?

Re: Saudi Crown Prince unveils plans for $500bn structure to house 9M people

#218

Post by ouid »

hansword wrote: post #211
helloworld11 wrote: post #199

Has nobody considered the possibility of such vast, shiny external reflector walls absolutely, very literally roasting the surrounding landscape when struck by the already ferocious Arabian sun? How would a person even survive openly coming close to this fascinating monstrosity from either side at certain times of the day? I remember a story about sunlight reflections bouncing from the "Walkie Talkie" Building in Lon…

You are missing the central point of the Walkie-Talkie and Disney-Concert-Hall controversies. These are Frank-Gehry(-style) buildings, and in those roughly half of all surfaces is a concave and half is a convex mirror. THIS concentration to one point is what turns the summer sun into death rays. Reflected sun, by definition, has a little less energy than direct sun. So, given the mirror walls are straight, as the des…

i have been on a street adjacent to a zero curvature mirrored building and it almost turned me into a terrorist

Re: Saudi Crown Prince unveils plans for $500bn structure to house 9M people

#220

Post by ouid »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #57
neals wrote: post #11

Make it a circle, get rid of the mirror, fill in the center. Bam! You got yourself a city.

A circle is harder to build and has more issues regarding sunlight. The sun hitting the building(s) is both a benefit (solar cells) and a problem (heat generation) at the same time. A linear structure will get a much more even energy distribution than a circle. Also one of the goals of the project is to reduce the energy needs of the population by making ways shorter. If you spread a city out on a circle, you got a m…

wrong on all counts. A disc has the same transit "solution" that a line does, just draw a spiral. for a line however, this is the only solution, and boy is it terrible. Imagine if society were all in one skyscraper and the only mode of transit was the elevator.
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