"""Microsoft believes they need to exercise more control over PC Security than previously"""
This has little to to with security. It's about having more control over the user.
The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton
161–170 of 554 posts
Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ron DeSantis doesn't need hardware-level DRM to ban math books. https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2022/05/06/florida-ba... If you're worried about book bannings in states like Florida, DeSantis is up for reelection in just over 3 months . Go volunteer or donate money to his opponent (probably Charlie Crist).
Mein Kampf is a banned book which I don't think many would disagree with. There are many other such books filled with propaganda that are rightly banned. I don't see why other propaganda-filled books that are being pushed on unsuspecting children shouldn't be banned too, unless the only reason is that you dislike the direction of the propaganda.
It's not banned here in the US[0][1][2]. Nor should it be IMHO.
I say that as a person of Eastern European/Jewish extraction.
Do I like fascists/fascism? No. Do I like Nazis? No.
But I do like freedom of expression. And if the price of that freedom is that hateful scumbags get to speak their piece, that's okay with me. But I'll have something to say about it too. As it should be.
[0] https://archive.org/details/mein-kampf-audiobook
[1] https://harperandharley.org/pdf/mein-kampf/
[2] https://www.amazon.com/Mein-Kampf-Adolf-Hitler-ebook/dp/B002...
Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton
#163Ew. Why are all the chip manufacturers going along with this stupid plan? I want to buy a processor and then own it and have it work in my best interests, not consume electricity and generatie heat enforcing draconian 3rd party DRM policies.
The market (software/system builders) say that locked down platforms like the iPhone are fabulously profitable. Sorry.
And that's why the road to a better software ecosystem is not some hackers smart trick to defeat the system for the moment but very clear rules of what is allowed to be done in the name of security and what isn't
A legislative piece of paper (or many pieces of paper) have the power to reign in corporations far far beyond any technical solution or workaround.
And yes, that requires limiting (intellectual) property rights and regulating what certain contracts can enforce. Sometimes it's needed if you ask me
In my experience this sentiment is rejected primarily by many technical people because it feels like adding the human factor to a pristine world of logic. In reality it's humans all the way down and there is no reason to believe that Microsoft/Apple is a better steward than an elected body of representatives acting according to the rule of law
Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton
#164Interesting naming. "Microsoft Hell God". Pluto (Greek: Πλούτων Plouton, "giver of wealth", Pluton in French and German) the most common name for the classical ruler of the underworld. Plouton was one of several euphemistic names for Hades, described in the Iliad as the god most hateful to mortals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto_(mythology)
The spouse of Kali Linux? After all they seem to be on the same page politically despite their seeming differences.
Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not mutually excusive. I think risks from hostile powers need to be called out, and I think we also need to be calling out this bad behavior on our side too.
The US is a hostile power everywhere else in the world. And then also for about 4-8 out of every 8 years to its own citizens.
People should generally be most afraid of their own government - it's the one that is allowed to use violence where they live.
Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton
#166I'm completely missing how his example of a Word document that can only be opened by approved users on approved hardware within the corporation is supposed to be a bad thing. Honestly, that sounds pretty fantastic. I've been using 3rd party tools/extensions to do this sort of thing in corporate and government environments for years, but having the attestation go all the way down to the hardware level is a big value-a…
The same things that make it good in a corporate environment can make it abusive in a personal machine. By forcing the kernel to be untamperable, Microsoft can arbitrarily enforce ANY policy they choose on your PC. They could spy on every single piece of network communication. They could ban any given software from being able to run on Windows - maybe Chrome, maybe Steam, any competitor at all. They actually could ea…
> They actually could easily enforce laws on banned content too
Exactly this. As soon as governments (or lobbyists) discover that this level of control is available to them, they will introduce whatever remaining laws they need, banning E2E encrypted chat apps, or Tor, or bittorrent clients.
I suspect that, like civil asset forfeiture, or running commands on botnet-infected devices[0], these actions will have only the thinnest veneer of "due process" applied to them. After all, if your computer is running "illegal" software, why should the government wait for your permission before deleting that software, or even tell you that it had done it after the fact?
[0] https://uk.pcmag.com/security/139675/us-disrupts-cyclops-bli...
Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you choose what you put in your CPU? What when Windows forces you to have that kind of hardware? You can choose not to wear that gear, but choosing to not use Windows is much more complicated, at least for most people.
I imagine if the proponents of these systems had their way, they'd add remote attestation to websites too. Imagine your bank's website only loading on a "secure" windows environment, non-rooted android phone or an iphone. Once these chips are in everyone's devices, it would be quite easy to add this stuff technically. And in doing so, break the web on non-approved hardware or software (like linux). Edit: Actually on…
> imagine if the proponents of these systems had their way, they'd add remote attestation to websites too. Imagine your bank's website only loading on a "secure" windows environment, non-rooted android phone or an iphone.
Actually, IIUC this is already the case on Android[0].
Some (many? most?) banks/banking apps are rejecting (and/or complaining about) access from rooted phones right now.
I can't confirm this personally, as I'd rather have my tonsils extracted through my ears than use a surveillance device^W^W smart phone to do anything financially related.
Perhaps someone who uses banking apps on their surveillance device could chime in on that?
[0] https://www.howtogeek.com/241012/safetynet-explained-why-and...
Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton
#168Ew. Why are all the chip manufacturers going along with this stupid plan? I want to buy a processor and then own it and have it work in my best interests, not consume electricity and generatie heat enforcing draconian 3rd party DRM policies.
> Why are all the chip manufacturers going along with this stupid plan?
Because the music/movie industry benefits from DRM and made agreements with the software and hardware industry.
Also NSA and the military complex benefit enormously from having control over hardware around the world.
Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> pornographic examples in it I can't fathom a math textbook with pornographic examples. Is this a thing in the US?
It depends on who is defining what is pornographic. To some of the swivel-eyed loons deep in the religious right, who are very vocal in these matters, all material depicting non-heterosexual people doing anything other than being deeply unhappy or being subject to a stoning, is pornographic. This means examples in textbooks that attempt to be inclusive can fall foul of their ire.
Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep! Basically, it's safer if you don't own your PC. Think about users with a million toolbars and Bonzi Buddy installed. Of course, the system for it is rudimentary, and puts a disproportionate amount of control in the hands of providers. And that works very well for them too.
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In a sane society these features would allow secure voting.
In this one... that's not what they'll be used for.
This is the end game for the corporate internet. Not only can all your activity be logged, but if any of it is unwelcome - on any scale, from family to school to work to country to world - you can be locked out.