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Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#81

Post by jbotz »

4dregress wrote: post #51

I just want to point out that it's probably not the best choice to move anywhere near the equator.

Because of global warming? Then I'd like to point out that the biggest changes in climate have been in the arctic and temperate regions so far, and that's likely to continue for some time. Yes, of course places that are already hotter are closer to becoming unlivably hot, but there are quite a few of places in the tropics that really aren't that hot; for one thing temperatures are more stable around the year. I live at 17 degrees South and even in the height of Summer it hasn't gotten above 34 degrees Celsius here, and that's very rare, usually in February (Southern hemisphere Summer, you know) midday temps are around 32 degrees.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#82

Post by Matthias247 »

foobarian wrote: post #26
Matthias247 wrote: post #23

Having moved from germany to canada (Vancouver BC) in 2017, I can tell you that "quality of life" is highly subjective, and a lot of things in germany work far better than it seems - but you will only notice it if you have anything to compare against. E.g. [online] shopping and stock availability is so much better in germany, and you only notice what a privilege it is to get everything you need in 1 day once it's tak…

> to canada (Vancouver BC) I mean Vancouver is not exactly a paragon of affordable housing either.

sure, this wasn't meant as a suggestion to take Vancouver into consideration - it certainly won't win anything on affordability.

It was just meant to offer my perspective and lessons learned around moving from germany to another location. I am sure for other locations there are again other pro's and con's.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#83

Post by 2143 »

1. Every country on Earth has its own problems.

2. If you move outside of Europe, the culture is going to be vastly different that what you're used to in Germany.

While the problems you faced in Germany may get solved, you will run into new problems.

Also, aren't Germans supposed to be well organized, disciplined, punctual etc? Most countries near the equator — despite being wonderful in their own unique ways — aren't exactly known for these traits, so you might end up being frustrated.

3. Did you consider moving to other places within Europe, such as Switzerland, Netherlands, or northern countries like Sweden, Norway? People living in these places seem to be mostly happy.

4. Malaysia seems to fit your criteria. I have lived there for a while. Kuala Lumpur (KL) is a pleasant place that's cheaper than Singapore. People tend to be polite. You can get by with English in KL.

However, I'm not entirely sure about the software developer scene over there though.

5. > but quality of life, politics, social life, social net and tax situation just reached their 30 year low.

I'm sceptical about these things being better outside Europe.

If you do move, I predict you'll eventually have a renewed appreciation for your homeland :)

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#84

Post by foobarian »

Matthias247 wrote: post #82
foobarian wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to canada (Vancouver BC) I mean Vancouver is not exactly a paragon of affordable housing either.

sure, this wasn't meant as a suggestion to take Vancouver into consideration - it certainly won't win anything on affordability. It was just meant to offer my perspective and lessons learned around moving from germany to another location. I am sure for other locations there are again other pro's and con's.

Apologies if that came off a bit dismissive - I think I am influenced by some acquaintances who had terrible experience in that area, due to insane real estate market. It was said that external investors driving it up is a big contributor but I don't have any data and am suspicious of those claims.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#85

Post by 4dregress »

akmarinov wrote: post #71
4dregress wrote: post #51

I just want to point out that it's probably not the best choice to move anywhere near the equator.

Do you mean climate change wise or that there's really not a lot of well developed countries along the equator or something else?

climate change.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#86

Post by jobegrabber »

bartminton wrote: post #56
MattGaiser wrote: post #22

> meaningless to get into the details The problem is that your stances on these impact recommendations. Are you taxed too high and think the social safety net costs too much? Or do you need the social safety net and are complaining about rich people not paying?

Good point. Actually we're not complaining about our high tax rates. It's just that we do not benefit from the state no more. As someone running my own business since 1999 and work as a freelancer, I never paid into the german social net. So I have no expectations there, have a private health insurance, take care for my pension by saving and investing and cover most risks with private insurance. That's fine, because…

>In Germany it's high taxes and bad conditions ... at least for us.

You're well off, you're earning a lot, you're privileged enough to be able to travel often and to a lot of places, some quite far away. You're in position where you can basically freely choose where to live next, by the sound of it.

One of the foundations of Germany is the principle of solidarity and that owning property bears social responsibility. That means that people who earn and possess more than others may and most often do have to contribute more to society than others. Or in simple terms, as you earn and own more, you're benefitting less from "the system". Just want to make it clear that this is by design..

You'll most probably find a place that will make your personal life objectively easier, i.e. taking less money from your paycheck.

I honestly hope you will find a happier life!

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#87

Post by jacquesm »

higeorge13 wrote: post #73
jacquesm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have a look at Greece, I've found it extremely welcoming and reasonably affordable.

I am greek but i wouldn’t recommend Greece given the poster’s requirements for multiple reasons. Greek islands are not busy in the winter, except the big ones (Crete, Rhodes) and also English is not a first language as in Cyprus or Malta. Tax is big, depends on the government snd changes every year. Cyprus is more stable and with way lower tax especially for contractors.

That's what I'd say if I were living in Greece ;)

But no, you are right.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#88

Post by giantg2 »

bartminton wrote: post #21
giantg2 wrote: post #11

"politics, social life, social net" I think it will be hard to recommend depending on your exact positions on these. I think it will be difficult to recommend a place with low taxes and robust safety net. Generally the taxes are what Pay for a safety net. On that note, the US could be an option (southern states) for you since the taxes tend to be lower than other developed nations. The safety net is fairly robust, bu…

> "politics, social life, social net" > I think it will be hard to recommend depending on your exact positions on these. We're both educated and open towards a liberal, future oriented society. Same goes for paying taxes, since the "overall standards" in Germany are still very high. Nevertheless, the last 10 years spit society, family and friends. Hardly any healthy discussion culture, you're either on the one or the…

I'm not sure where would be a good place. It seems most places have some degree of us/them mentality, media biases, and most definitely wasteful spending. One place to maybe check out is Switzerland.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#89

Post by jobegrabber »

bartminton wrote: post #76
kblev wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VAT + Income Tax + Socials?

Income tax + business tax pile up to 50% already. I don't pay social taxes by choice, hence I do not benefit from the social net. If I add up all other taxes then, I end up pretty close at 70%. Meaning mostly VAT, taxes on gas and oil, alcohol, tobacco, final withholding tax on stock and crypto investments and speculation, vehicle tax, electricity tax. All in all there are close to 40 different types of tax, but we d…

>Income tax + business tax pile up to 50% already

Is that for all your income or "just" over a certain threshold?

>Even if you make some good money, that does not leave you with a lot to live.

You said you travelled to different countries in Europe, Africa and Asia. Do you consider that not leaving you with a lot to live?

>with virtually no deductible costs you pay taxes first, and then have to take care about health care, insurances and pension afterwards

Those are all, up to a certain degree, deductible from your taxes, right?

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#90

Post by darrrwin »

bartminton wrote: post #76
kblev wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VAT + Income Tax + Socials?

Income tax + business tax pile up to 50% already. I don't pay social taxes by choice, hence I do not benefit from the social net. If I add up all other taxes then, I end up pretty close at 70%. Meaning mostly VAT, taxes on gas and oil, alcohol, tobacco, final withholding tax on stock and crypto investments and speculation, vehicle tax, electricity tax. All in all there are close to 40 different types of tax, but we d…

You can compare taxes here: https://files.taxfoundation.org/20191022154112/TEMTR-41Count...

To compare cost of living: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

Safety comparison: https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2...

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