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The Case for C# and .NET

chrlschn.medium.com

251–260 of 376 posts

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#251
post #30

I wouldn't lose a second to C# or any MS platform unless required for employment reasons. https://github.com/OmniSharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276

Why would you ever waste time using VSCode for C# when VS and JetBrains Rider exist?

Because people will use whatever tool works for them

Edit: I love vscode for c#

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats wrong with comparisons to Java, and why the need for you and the article author to throw shade at Java while singing the praises of C#? Java and C# are very similar languages.

Shitting on Java is part of .NET ethos (I've worked in a couple of .NET shops)

I recently worked with some .Net developers who wanted a primarily Java based company to let them work with .Net. In their opinion .Net was so much better (faster, larger ecosystem, more developers) that it would pay off quickly. When I asked them for documentation, they pointed to some microbenchmarks that had no significance to the type of work they would do. They also complained that Java was more "corporate" than ".Net", which is ridiculous in my opinion. Even if that was the case, the differences would be a "rounding error"

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually tried Blazor ? Just the schism between WASM and Server and the feature matrix there, and generally shit quality of early stage Microsoft product - I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, likewise for MAUI - I've seen coworkers prototype both for some greenfield projects in last month or two and both projects gave up on it because it just isn't there yet for mainstream development. I mean .NET core…

I've tried Blazor. I built and deployed 3 apps for clients over the last 3 years while consulting and was able to deliver the projects for 33% what it would have cost to deliver them with react or angular. Clients have been very happy with the results. Then I built my own startup with it, and we have a solution that 3 devs have been working on for 2 years. I can't recommend Blazor enough. I love it. I have run into a…

The problem I have with Blazor Server side is that it requires a stable internet connection otherwise client socket connection drops and the browser issues a full page reload.

Or at least those were my findings last time I tried. I would be very happy if that isn't the case currently.

For intranet web apps it looks amazing though.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#254

I also think that C# and .NET are awesome. Especially latest releases dotnet 6 and upcoming 7 have a ton of new things to be even more productive. I like the fact, that you can develop command line apps, Web APIs, Desktop Apps and smartphone apps all with the same toolset, including the fact that deployment is possible on nearly every major platform for every major platform (except iOS and macOS Apps, as always only…

I've been a .NET developer professionally for seven and a half years. Rider is the way to go. Visual Studio has improved dramatically over the last decade or so, but Rider is still way ahead of it on code search/discovery, performance, and general user experience. I did a tech talk at my company where I demoed Rider vs Visual Studio 2019 performance on our bigger projects... it was embarrassing for VS. VS 2022 was su…

Rider does not have a community edition unlike IDEA. It was created due to a combined threat of VS Code and Roslyn and is the reason ReSharper is almost neglected these days.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The performance really is astonishing in many areas now. The part that keeps me hooked is the fact that I can stand up something capable of producing those numbers in 30 lines of code using 1st party dependencies only. I can then have a full prototype to demo by late afternoon, again having antagonized over exactly zero 3rd parties. For me, the performance numbers aren’t just about speed while in production. It’s als…

If you like the productivity, just wait till you try Rails.

Rails is still a thing in 2022?

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#256
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blazor is in development and will only get better. How good can it get though? Blazor WASM suffers from the huge initial, multi-megabyte download of the .NET runtime. How is that expected to come down to something in the range of 50-500kb what we have with most JS frameworks now? I just cannot do that on public-facing parts of an application. It is unusable when accessed from a slow mobile network. Company-internal…

The vast majority of complex JS SPAs are also multi-megabyte payloads. You can also prerender components the same was SSR is used to mitigate JS initialization. As far server-side Blazor - it seems like an afterthought because you read about Phoenix Liveview? How is that a serious evaluation? Blazor is a core part of the framework now and the server-side model is always going to be a serious option because it enables…

> The vast majority of complex JS SPAs are also multi-megabyte payloads

I suspect you're talking about full apps that include third party deps. The majority of SPAs are https://gist.github.com/Restuta/cda69e50a853aa64912d

You can't look at some site that has 10MB of third party deps and compare that to what Blazor is doing. You'll still need third party deps with Blazor as well.

The sites that have a large 10MB bundle would have had 100's of 100KB scripts pre-spa days.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#257
The thing I miss the most with C# and dotnet is offline documentation. With Java, I can install the java-17-openjdk-javadoc package and have the full API reference (at /usr/share/javadoc/java/index.html), and download a couple of PDF files to have also the full language and bytecode specification. With Rust, I can install the rust-doc package and have the full API and language reference (at /usr/share/doc/rust/html/index.html). But so far, I haven't found an equivalent for dotnet, unless you're running Visual Studio on Windows. When you want to learn by leisurely browsing the API documentation and language reference, the speed difference is massive: the online documentation takes a bit of time to switch from one page to another, while with offline documentation it's nearly instant.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#258
The data this article quotes doesn't smell right.

The tables and graphs in "The Performance Problem" section should at least feel a little strange. Looking at the original article[1], we can see the source code for JavaScript [2], Python [3], and .Net [4] shows that...there just isn't much going on here. This isn't a comparison of how fast these are. It's a comparison of how fast this AWS setup could do its thing, and how fast this DynamoDB client library is.

In the "So Why/Not .NET?", there's the "Advisories by package ecosystem and severity"[5] graph. So it doesn't feel a little strange that NuGet is the pinnacle of software engineering, and programs there just have no security vulnerabilities? Or maybe...there's some bias going on here, and NuGet isn't as interesting to look at as PyPI, so there are fewer advisories being published? That's another way to look at it.

When things look too good to be true, maybe they are. I don't care if the author (or anyone else) wants to use .Net, have fun. I do care that we sometimes approach technological issues with hostility and rivalry, accepting random data which seem to support us without looking them through.

[1] https://filia-aleks.medium.com/aws-lambda-battle-2021-perfor... [2] https://github.com/Aleksandr-Filichkin/aws-lambda-runtimes-p... [3] https://github.com/Aleksandr-Filichkin/aws-lambda-runtimes-p... [4] https://github.com/Aleksandr-Filichkin/aws-lambda-runtimes-p... [5] https://octoverse.github.com/static/github-octoverse-2020-se...

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#260
post #209

The problem is not with .NET itself, it's Microsoft. I don't even consider using VsCode as main editor because it's from MS.

There are genuine people behind these tools. Awesome people.

Sure, but they work for Microsoft. Who tried to own the industry in the 1990s.
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