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The Case for C# and .NET

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Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#191

Post by manigandham »

moonchrome wrote: post #108
labrador wrote: post #5

> For the front-end, JavaScript is unavoidable (for now) Author really needs to give Blazor a try. I wrote some comments last week speculating that I'd use Dart or TypeScript with C# .NET on the client because WebAssembly doesn't do DOM manipulation, but turns out I should have waited to learn it better before making a comment. I've learned I can add events and event handlers to elements without ever leaving C#. Then…

Have you actually tried Blazor ? Just the schism between WASM and Server and the feature matrix there, and generally shit quality of early stage Microsoft product - I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, likewise for MAUI - I've seen coworkers prototype both for some greenfield projects in last month or two and both projects gave up on it because it just isn't there yet for mainstream development. I mean .NET core…

> "Have you actually tried Blazor? "

Yes. Server-side Blazor is incredibly productive and fantastic for complex UIs, especially for B2B and other SaaS products.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#192

Post by manigandham »

graboid wrote: post #52
labrador wrote: post #5

> For the front-end, JavaScript is unavoidable (for now) Author really needs to give Blazor a try. I wrote some comments last week speculating that I'd use Dart or TypeScript with C# .NET on the client because WebAssembly doesn't do DOM manipulation, but turns out I should have waited to learn it better before making a comment. I've learned I can add events and event handlers to elements without ever leaving C#. Then…

> Blazor is in development and will only get better. How good can it get though? Blazor WASM suffers from the huge initial, multi-megabyte download of the .NET runtime. How is that expected to come down to something in the range of 50-500kb what we have with most JS frameworks now? I just cannot do that on public-facing parts of an application. It is unusable when accessed from a slow mobile network. Company-internal…

The vast majority of complex JS SPAs are also multi-megabyte payloads. You can also prerender components the same was SSR is used to mitigate JS initialization.

As far server-side Blazor - it seems like an afterthought because you read about Phoenix Liveview? How is that a serious evaluation? Blazor is a core part of the framework now and the server-side model is always going to be a serious option because it enables functionality that can be done with the disconnected client/WASM mode (like direct DB access without the serialization + API overhead).

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#193

Post by arcturus17 »

hhjinks wrote: post #171
andrewstuart wrote: post #7

C# and TypeScript seem to be far and away the most popular programming languages today. At least from the perspective of recruiting in Australia. Python is on the way up and third most popular but well behind C# and TypeScript. Golang is on the way up but very small in terms of number of developers. Java is on the way down but will never vanish, it's just not super popular any more. Ruby is small enough to just be a…

Perhaps in Australia, but certainly not worldwide. C# is way smaller than even Go in total, and Java is a lumbering giant. Slow perhaps, but there's no David around at the moment.

My instincts tell me that there’s no way Go is larger than C# worldwide. Large enterprises are still predominantly on C# and Java… Tiobe index, whatever you may think of it, does not support that… What’s your source?

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#194

Post by BatteryMountain »

JamesBarney wrote: post #147
moonchrome wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually tried Blazor ? Just the schism between WASM and Server and the feature matrix there, and generally shit quality of early stage Microsoft product - I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, likewise for MAUI - I've seen coworkers prototype both for some greenfield projects in last month or two and both projects gave up on it because it just isn't there yet for mainstream development. I mean .NET core…

I've tried Blazor. I built and deployed 3 apps for clients over the last 3 years while consulting and was able to deliver the projects for 33% what it would have cost to deliver them with react or angular. Clients have been very happy with the results. Then I built my own startup with it, and we have a solution that 3 devs have been working on for 2 years. I can't recommend Blazor enough. I love it. I have run into a…

They should really just dump MAUI..calling it a dumpster fire is being polite. Rather let their devs spend some time on Avalonia.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#195

Post by manigandham »

d3nj4l wrote: post #167
dmitriid wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people feel they are absoultely entitled to having best-in-class IDEs for free? Don't the developers of those IDEs have the right to, you know, eat ? ALso, JetBrains' IDEs are: - free for students, startups and opensource projects - cost an insane "two/three beers a month" for individual licenses (yeah, it's more expensive than two beers in many countries, but as a developer I could easily afford it even in th…

I'm not entitled to a best-in-class IDE experience, I'm just happy using one of the dozens of equivalent languages that do have them with an open community.

Those are not best-in-class. Pretty much the entire industry is now VS Code by default - which is very good but not a full IDE like VS or Rider/IntelliJ series.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#196

Post by BatteryMountain »

enlyth wrote: post #176
bayindirh wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET core can run on any platform it wants, but as long as it's from Microsoft, the company as we know it, I won't even write "Hello, World!" with it. A language can't be the fastest at everything in today's mature language ecosystem. OTOH, Debian's "Programming Language Games" benchmarks shows it's on par with Java (which is not slow in any means), and not as fast as you claim [0]. In the page I shared, some C# benc…

Curious, what is it with Microsoft that makes it so poisonous for you that you won't touch anything they make with a ten foot pole? As an example, I'd say Facebook (Meta) is a way more toxic company but I've never heard of a developer have moral arguments against using React

I don't touch anything from facebook, will not touch react or projects with react.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#197

Post by sbergot »

manigandham wrote: post #191
moonchrome wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually tried Blazor ? Just the schism between WASM and Server and the feature matrix there, and generally shit quality of early stage Microsoft product - I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, likewise for MAUI - I've seen coworkers prototype both for some greenfield projects in last month or two and both projects gave up on it because it just isn't there yet for mainstream development. I mean .NET core…

> "Have you actually tried Blazor? " Yes. Server-side Blazor is incredibly productive and fantastic for complex UIs, especially for B2B and other SaaS products.

Server side Blazor is really like webforms in terms of client state management and scalability. I am not sure I would really use it for anything.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#198

Post by piaste »

silon42 wrote: post #170
JamesBarney wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for swagger documentation you install the swashbuckle nuget package and then add these three lines services.AddSwaggerGen(); app.UseSwagger(); app.UseSwaggerUI();

Personally, I'd rather generate documentation at compile time.

I do it during tests.

Since I'm already spawning a TestHost and trying out various API calls, one of these tests basically does "curl $host/openapi/openapi.json | diff ./docs/openapi.json". If it spots a change and fails the test, I check that the difference is expected, and if so I temporarily enable and run a different "test" which actually writes the updated file.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#199

Post by wokwokwok »

JamesBarney wrote: post #147
moonchrome wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually tried Blazor ? Just the schism between WASM and Server and the feature matrix there, and generally shit quality of early stage Microsoft product - I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, likewise for MAUI - I've seen coworkers prototype both for some greenfield projects in last month or two and both projects gave up on it because it just isn't there yet for mainstream development. I mean .NET core…

I've tried Blazor. I built and deployed 3 apps for clients over the last 3 years while consulting and was able to deliver the projects for 33% what it would have cost to deliver them with react or angular. Clients have been very happy with the results. Then I built my own startup with it, and we have a solution that 3 devs have been working on for 2 years. I can't recommend Blazor enough. I love it. I have run into a…

> was able to deliver the projects for 33% what it would have cost to deliver them with react or angular.

That’s a pretty extraordinary claim.

I know single stack can be more productive, but that sounds very impressive. Could you perhaps talk details of:

- styling blazor (eg. Bootstrap, tailwind); is it just drop in? How do you use it, eg. Without the tailwind preprocessor npm package?

- interactive front end components (eg drag and drop) that lag badly when using SS blazor in examples.

- bridging to native js (which is ultimately unavoidable in situations where you need integration like maps as far as I know)

- scaling load on concurrent users (one ws per user right? Are you using the signalr service & functions? I tried this and found the long running azure functions are quite expensive to run. Do you have advice?

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#200

Post by bbkane »

ivraatiems wrote: post #99
sandreas wrote: post #18

I also think that C# and .NET are awesome. Especially latest releases dotnet 6 and upcoming 7 have a ton of new things to be even more productive. I like the fact, that you can develop command line apps, Web APIs, Desktop Apps and smartphone apps all with the same toolset, including the fact that deployment is possible on nearly every major platform for every major platform (except iOS and macOS Apps, as always only…

I've been a .NET developer professionally for seven and a half years. Rider is the way to go. Visual Studio has improved dramatically over the last decade or so, but Rider is still way ahead of it on code search/discovery, performance, and general user experience. I did a tech talk at my company where I demoed Rider vs Visual Studio 2019 performance on our bigger projects... it was embarrassing for VS. VS 2022 was su…

I'd love to watch that talk if you're comfortable posting a link
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