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Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

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Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#221

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery "However, an electric vehicle with aluminium batteries has the potential for up to eight times the range of a lithium-ion battery with a significantly lower total weight." It just needs silver for a catalyst. :-(

Being non-rechargeable sounds like a bigger issue.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#222
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very forward thinking move for 2018. I look forward to us all driving Chinese BYD cars at this rate of innovation

I will not be surprised if Ford enter into partnership agreement with CATL sometimes later.

They already did

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were plans in Japan for wide use of hydrogen as the fuel of the future. Japanese car manufacturers aligned on that, but weren’t keen on building the necessary infrastructure. You could lease a hydrogen fuel cell car in CA. There was even a lot of state incentives if you did. But very few fueling stations (iirc, only two in the whole Bay Area)

Because the infrastructure needed would be bonkers, and creating fuelibg stations is not really a solved problem. You also loose a big amount of energy converting from electric to hydrogen and back. The cars themselves almost always have low storage because the tanks are very big. Hydrogen car performance is also a lot lower then pure EV.

Fueling stations are a solved problem. There are compact, modular, on-site hydrogen generators designed for installation in places like gas stations. I recently met the founder of this company: https://genh2hydrogen.com/ that is doing exactly this - they're currently taking pre-orders and looking for final funding, but they have the engineering and prototyping in place. The Department of Energy even offers interest-free 30 year loans for any stations that want to buy one.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#224

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery "However, an electric vehicle with aluminium batteries has the potential for up to eight times the range of a lithium-ion battery with a significantly lower total weight." It just needs silver for a catalyst. :-(

[deleted]

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they spend two years demonstrating they are fair weather partners? Was it the part where they locked workers inside of factories producing goods for America to make sure that the Americans got their shipments in spite of the Covid-0 policy? Or was it how China is actually upholding most sanctions against Russia, despite giving less than 0 f's about Ukraine? IMO the real disaster would be a total de-link betwe…

> Trade prevents war because war would mean decimation of their economies and lead to likely depressions 1913 is calling and wants its optimism back. If the fertilizer hits the fan re Taiwan, the CCP will not hesitate to cut off all trade with everyone who supports Taiwan.

They won't stop trading with Taiwan supporting countries. They don't have any plans of that as far as anyone knows and never threatened it. The threat is that the US executes it's public plans of sinking ships trading with China in such a contingency.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are in fact better than gasoline. A fact that I think often gets overlooked. But note, they do actually have batteries, similar to ICE serial hybrids. They key thing of course, is that building lots of batteries is not a 'problem', and it's lack of being a problem is exactly why BEVs are better than fuel-cell hydrogen cars for basically everything, except maybe long distance air transport.

> why BEVs are better than fuel-cell hydrogen cars for basically everything, except maybe long distance air transport. The place where BEVs have yet to prove themselves is when energy density is absolutely critical. Long distance transport of any sort (air, sea, train, semi) is really the next places for them. Semi is a maybe at this point. Train MIGHT make sense, but, IMO it'll probably make the most sense as an ene…

It's mostly a matter of battery price, which is on a downward slope, meaning it's mostly a matter of time.

> Rapid battery cost declines accelerate the prospects of all-electric interregional container shipping

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-022-01065-y

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#227
post #6

Happy Ford is using more environmentally friendly Iron based LFP batteries. Cobalt in more traditional batteries is neurotoxic for humans and the mining of Cobalt is dirty. Very good that a large car manufacturer such as Ford is switching to Iron LFP. You should be able to fast charge LFP which will compensate for the lesser energy density. Since lfp is more stable they should be able to take the charging better than…

Having driven the 2021 Model 3 Standard Range with LFP Batteries from China: It charged much slower and had worse performance degradation in winter. This might be due to the software limitations Tesla put on the BMC, but since then it didn't improve by much. I wouldn't expect LFP be the panacea, but it should make EVs more affordable and is definetly in the "good enough" range for most families.

BYD has integrated heating elements to drastically reduce degradation in the winter. Charging speeds is just a result of cheaping out somewhere at the scales we're talking about.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#228
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla recommends charging to 100% because otherwise it has trouble accurately estimating the vehicle range and battery state of charge.

True. Though the damage is low from hitting 100% which is part of the reason why this is a "just leave it at 100%" rather than a "hit 100% once a week". That said, I'd probably do 90% as the max and 100% on the weekend if I owned an LFP vehicle.

The average American, buying a ~250 mile range EV, would only need to plug it in to charge once a week. Maybe twice. So, just charge it to 100% every time you charge it.

Re: Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

#230
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you should mention Boeing. Alan Mulally went to Ford in 2006 after working for Boeing for 35+ years. In my opinion he was a net positive for the company, securing a credit line just before the 2007 recession so that Ford did not have to get bailed out by the government. He also sold off Jaguar/Land Rover just in time before gas prices spiked and their sales slumped. I think he is one of the "good" Boeing execs,…

Ford was never going to take the bailout: GM and Chrysler were prohibited from paying dividends, while the Ford family receives income from FoMoCo stock.

It was more than that. GM went bankrupt and wiped out all the stockholders' equity. If Ford did that, it would have ended the two-tier stock structure that gives the Ford family control.
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