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Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

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Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#151

Post by api »

bravura wrote: post #134
api wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll do a quick summary. Episode 1: (this is the one that most directly affected me) I was working on a very interesting but somewhat far-off technology. I did some tech talks about it, and put them on Google Video. Was approached by a guy who said he was a wealthy early-stage technology investor. He showed me a lot of stuff that indicated that this was the case, had a lot of real people vouching for him, etc. He mad…

I'm curious to learn more about what you're working on, but I couldn't find contact information in your profile. Could you email me? (See my profile for details.)

I'm not working on it anymore. I've moved on to other things.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#152

Post by neilk »

saalweachter wrote: post #15

I wonder if any early Google employees begrudge Charlie (he's the "early Google chef", right?) his millions. An army travels on its stomach. Google's chefs helped make Google the company it is today. Why is it so wrong that they be rewarded?

Millions, shmillions. That's not the point.

Presumably he took stock options and was paid less than he would receive elsewhere. And the options also compensate him for career risk.

The way I read it, committing to Google was a much bigger risk for him than that of any of the programmers. What if Google had never grown beyond a handful of employees? How does that look on a resume? Instead of "sous-chef at Restaurant le Snob", "managed the cafeteria in some anonymous company in a Mountain View office park."

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#153

Post by slavak »

johngalt wrote: post #122

Zynga is aiming squarely at their feet and firing a cannon. Would you invest in a company where management is obviously looking for a short term cashout at the expense of the future success of the company? The future success is precisely what the investor is buying . It's like buying a car while the seller is actively pulling parts out of it . The results of this will be reduced share values combined with lawsuits ea…

I was also wondering about this.

A few people here commented that this is obviously a move by the execs to claw back as much stock as possible for themselves before the IPO in order to ditch it and run. On one level, this sounds realistic. But you have to wonder: Isn't taking this kind of action so close to the IPO just going to put their stock price into free-fall? Did they simply not expect this kind of headlines, or maybe I'm overestimating the amount of exposure this is going to get outside the HN community?

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#155

Post by api »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #111
api wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of this stuff is public info. The head of our firm should have probably done more checking. But there are limits, of course, and it's a pain and can be expensive. A database of the sort that you suggest is prohibited by libel and slander laws. You'd instantly be sued. While libel and slander laws serve useful purposes, they also serve to prevent people from warning each other about predators. If you say "hey, th…

How did you find out about his associations in the end? Is it something that, say, a hired private detective could have uncovered?

Gossip.

But honestly, some of it was visible in signs that I (and others) would have recognized had we been more experienced.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#156

Post by kls »

prostoalex wrote: post #135
kls wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rewrite the contract so that all options that have been granted but not vested, vest on termination. I was bite by this one and learned my lesson, I have also been bit by dilution, you pick these things up along the way. If they do not agree to vest on termination then we go back to salary negotiation or I walk. To me if they can terminate you and snatch back millions, it's just to big of a carrot to do so, as well…

Are you in executive/board/founder position? Once again, curious to hear the name of the companies. I glanced at this http://www.linkedin.com/in/kentonsmeltzer from your HN profile, and didn't find any Silicon Valley names, but I'm assuming you might not disclose everything there.

I own my own freelancing company now doing JS web apps and mobile, I am based in the Orlando Florida area, but I am part of a Vally start-up as the CTO. Sorry I have to be vague on that topic right now. That being said, I was an executive at Marriott and was in line for the CTO position before I left, I did rewire the options contract with Marriott and went through several iterations with Legal. I also built 3 start-ups from the ground up, one exited to Hotels.com, another to TUI travel and the other to EAS nutrition. I would prefer not to say which I got screwed on but one of those exits I was left with nothing but a cold hard lesson in business, ownership and options.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#157

Post by a5seo »

I love that if a company implodes, the employees who took options over cash can't go back and say, "hey, I worked way harder and gave up way more than I should have, so I need to take some cash out of the founder's pocket," yet Pincus thinks it's perfectly OK to do the inverse... "Woa eh, you've made way more money than we thought, so we need to take some of your equity back."

I hope Pincus, and anything he touches, is dead to anyone with the slightest amount of common sense going forward.

It's like this guy can't help but be evil.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#159

Post by api »

neilk wrote: post #140
api wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never sign a contract with someone for whom you think a contract is necessary.

No, contracts are useful even if you trust the other party intimately, because they spell out, in writing, exactly what is expected of each party. Believe it or not, sometimes disputes arise even among people who had the best intentions. They also allow you to continue to do business even if the other company changes hands. I think the point you're trying to make is that if you already don't trust someone, a contract…

The latter is what I meant. I didn't mean don't sign contracts. I meant don't do business with scum.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#160

Post by wavephorm »

Androsynth wrote: post #149
wavephorm wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The employees that get their shares stolen can sue for extortion, which is exactly how I and most people would describe this situation. Unfortunately the law generally favors those with more money and resources.

Bullshit, this is a free market economy. If I feel you are overpaid for what you contribute, I can fire you. This is not extortion, they are readjusting their compensation to the market-going rates. Whether it is moral or whether it will hurt them in the future are different questions.

They aren't being fired for being overpaid, they're being threatened with termination unless they surrender their equity in a privately owned company.

Definiton of extortion (from wikipedia):

  Extortion (also called shakedown, outwresting, and
  exaction) is a criminal offence which occurs when a
  person unlawfully obtains either money, property or
  services from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion.
What Zynga is doing IS extortion. Perhaps it is a form of extortion that is legal in California.
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