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Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

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Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#131

Post by Tichy »

Androsynth wrote: post #113
danilocampos wrote: post #76

Wait a minute. What just a damn minute, here. Are you telling me that a company that cheerfully built itself on shady shit like un-removable browser toolbars might continue screwing anyone it wants in the furtherance of its leaders' avarice? I am shocked. Look, it's endearing when people have scrappy stories about their origins. We all act out of desperate vigor when we're up against the wall and far from our goals.…

Is it ever that simple? How can you know a person's moral character just through a job interview? What about if you were Zynga employee #50 and Pincus didn't even interview you, but the company wasn't big enough for TC to post about it's shadiness? What if an honest man gets tempted by 9 figures in a once in a lifetime situation?

Just playing some of Zyngas games might provide a hint.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#134

Post by bravura »

api wrote: post #53
pavel_lishin wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be willing to do an anonymous AMA, or write up some of your experiences?

I'll do a quick summary. Episode 1: (this is the one that most directly affected me) I was working on a very interesting but somewhat far-off technology. I did some tech talks about it, and put them on Google Video. Was approached by a guy who said he was a wealthy early-stage technology investor. He showed me a lot of stuff that indicated that this was the case, had a lot of real people vouching for him, etc. He mad…

I'm curious to learn more about what you're working on, but I couldn't find contact information in your profile. Could you email me? (See my profile for details.)

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#135

Post by prostoalex »

kls wrote: post #119
prostoalex wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

contract that says that I loose vesting on termination, and change it to all options become instantly vested on termination Curious which companies do that. Are you talking about 83(b) election, or were you really able to convince companies to instantly vest upon termination?

I rewrite the contract so that all options that have been granted but not vested, vest on termination. I was bite by this one and learned my lesson, I have also been bit by dilution, you pick these things up along the way. If they do not agree to vest on termination then we go back to salary negotiation or I walk. To me if they can terminate you and snatch back millions, it's just to big of a carrot to do so, as well…

Are you in executive/board/founder position?

Once again, curious to hear the name of the companies. I glanced at this http://www.linkedin.com/in/kentonsmeltzer from your HN profile, and didn't find any Silicon Valley names, but I'm assuming you might not disclose everything there.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#136

Post by ChuckMcM »

kls wrote: post #79
thezilch wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL. Considering the employees are going to be challenging California's "at will" employment laws and the fact that the charges against the employees is performance based, how likely is #2 to have a fighting chance?

They have a strong argument that the options deprived them of real salary that they would have earned elsewhere. It will be interesting though. The reality though is they just lost every bit of talent they ever gained. The good talent is already in talks with other organizations I can guarantee you, I personally would be looking for an exit and no one I mean no one worth their salt is going to sign up with them now.

" ... and no one I mean no one worth their salt is going to sign up with them now."

I think this is probably a bit extreme (I realize you may be employing hyperbole for effect but still) Zynga is a considered a "hot" IPO candidate and as such you will find folks who recognize that not everyone is a super star. Some talent might be more attracted to Zynga because they 'deal with the dead wood' in a proactive way. And pre-IPO options are better than post-IPO options.

It will certainly be interesting to see if it affects their ability to recruit and retain talent. I can only hope that some of the HR people escape and can share the results with others. Too often there isn't any really definitive data post event if it was a net positive or loss for the company. This is why I think there is a lot of hand waving in the HR space, hard to get real numbers.

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#137

Post by _delirium »

lemming wrote: post #80
ohyes wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally true. Your employer is not there to do you any favors. Most likely, they will knife you in the back the minute they get the chance.

This is utter bullshit. And if it's not, anyone reading HN has better options. Let's stop with the all-employers-are-out-to-screw-you rhetoric because it's clearly not true.

I can believe we get a skewed view of anecdotes at HN, but stories about how employees got screwed out of equity by investors/founders when an exit loomed do seem like the norm around here. People even routinely give the advice that you should treat equity grants as having cash value ~$0 if you aren't a founder or maybe one of the first few key hires, because apart from the risk of the equity becoming worthless if the company folds, there's always some way to cut you out of the deal even in the case of a successful exit. Zynga's notable because of how brazen it is, not because the screw-employees-at-exit story is never-before-told...

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#138

Post by tlear »

zem wrote: post #23
cageface wrote: post #9

Is it just me or is tech particularly sleazy right now?

well, zynga in particular has been sleazy from day one. if any other company had done this, i bet people would have been a lot more taken aback - here it's still shocking, but at some level it's in line with their general business ethic.

That was my reaction as well, Zynga doing it is not surprising at all

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#139

Post by ChuckMcM »

fab13n wrote: post #121
johngalt wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like Zynga will have another IPO in the future, or will need to promise future employees equity. Precisely why "trust" should never be a part of an equity negotiation. When millions are on the table people will do whatever they can get away with. Zynga doesn't want another "google chef", but they took full advantage of the "google chef" when promising equity to early employees.

Indeed, they will only have one IPO. But the PR backlash can seriously affect it, if it's made clear to everyone that the execs are crooks, and that they'll never be able to hire talents again.

The poster child here is Groupon (GRPN) and while the poor choices of their executives did negatively affect the IPO they are still (11/9) trading above their IPO price of $20 ($24.50 when I glanced).

Re: Zynga to employees: Give back our stock or you'll be fired

#140

Post by neilk »

api wrote: post #98
alex4nder wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new hires will just need 'no takebacks' written into their contracts.

Never sign a contract with someone for whom you think a contract is necessary.

No, contracts are useful even if you trust the other party intimately, because they spell out, in writing, exactly what is expected of each party. Believe it or not, sometimes disputes arise even among people who had the best intentions.

They also allow you to continue to do business even if the other company changes hands.

I think the point you're trying to make is that if you already don't trust someone, a contract is not going to save you. That I can agree with.

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