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A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

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Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#81

Post by lupire »

carbadtraingood wrote: post #14

The answer from the federation is unconscionable. They blamed the boy and then said they could not be held responsible. Fuck off, a kid made a reasonable kid movement. If the robot wasn't ready to be around children, it shouldn't have been deployed around children. And there should have been a big red button that immediately everything, within reach of every player.

That's not what they said. They said they weren't responsible for the robot, and which is true. Same as if a human player injured another player. The robot's operator is responsible.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#82

Post by krallja »

charcircuit wrote: post #80
carbadtraingood wrote: post #14

The answer from the federation is unconscionable. They blamed the boy and then said they could not be held responsible. Fuck off, a kid made a reasonable kid movement. If the robot wasn't ready to be around children, it shouldn't have been deployed around children. And there should have been a big red button that immediately everything, within reach of every player.

>a kid made a reasonable kid movement What do you mean? There's no reasonable time where you and your opponent are touching the pieces at the same time. Nor is there a reasonable time where you reach for the same piece.

Seven-year-old boys are known for always doing things that are reasonable, and never doing anything unreasonable.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#83

Post by vba616 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #37
twayt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, or the parents who let them play against it.

That's not how health and safety works, you can't just leave children near lethal machinery like chainsaws and molten metal spewing form an arc furnace after 'briefing' them.

When I was a child, my mother always told me "read the manual" before using her power equipment like a tractor or chainsaw. Which I did.

She grew up on a farm in the 1940s, where she got to use potentially lethal machinery as soon as she could reach the controls.

Of course, if a complete manual with all safety information wasn't provided, that's clearly negligent and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#84

Post by hinkley »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #37
twayt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, or the parents who let them play against it.

That's not how health and safety works, you can't just leave children near lethal machinery like chainsaws and molten metal spewing form an arc furnace after 'briefing' them.

Or next to any industrial equipment… like robot arms designed for manufacturing.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#85

Post by zuminator »

carbadtraingood wrote: post #14

The answer from the federation is unconscionable. They blamed the boy and then said they could not be held responsible. Fuck off, a kid made a reasonable kid movement. If the robot wasn't ready to be around children, it shouldn't have been deployed around children. And there should have been a big red button that immediately everything, within reach of every player.

If that is the official statement of the federation, I agree it's abysmal. But i question whether Lazarev really blurted all of that in one go, or if he was asked a series of leading questions and then his answers were misleadingly pasted together to make him sound as callous as possible.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#86

Post by charcircuit »

krallja wrote: post #82
charcircuit wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a kid made a reasonable kid movement What do you mean? There's no reasonable time where you and your opponent are touching the pieces at the same time. Nor is there a reasonable time where you reach for the same piece.

Seven-year-old boys are known for always doing things that are reasonable, and never doing anything unreasonable.

I agree especially since he "is among the top 30 chess players in Moscow under the age of nine."

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#87

Post by rmbyrro »

charcircuit wrote: post #80
carbadtraingood wrote: post #14

The answer from the federation is unconscionable. They blamed the boy and then said they could not be held responsible. Fuck off, a kid made a reasonable kid movement. If the robot wasn't ready to be around children, it shouldn't have been deployed around children. And there should have been a big red button that immediately everything, within reach of every player.

>a kid made a reasonable kid movement What do you mean? There's no reasonable time where you and your opponent are touching the pieces at the same time. Nor is there a reasonable time where you reach for the same piece.

It's a kid, my friend.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#88

Post by etrautmann »

salawat wrote: post #72
godelski wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, as someone that researches ML, this is my major concern. It isn't AGI that has the potential to kill us, it is current ML systems that can't handle OOD data and engineers put it in place because "that's the user's fault." Same reason we have Teslas crashing. AI safety might talk about AGI a lot, but their main area of research is modern systems and concerns over that. OOD data is really hard to deal with FW…

By OOD, do you mean Out Of Domain?

Not the parent but presumable “out of distribution” meaning being faced with inputs outside of the statistics of the training data set.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#89

Post by klyrs »

Maursault wrote: post #49
klyrs wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A killswitch wouldn't help here, the kid's finger was probably broken before he even felt the pain. Given the bot's behavior, it looks like it's programmed to move its arm down until it touches the table. It didn't notice that it encountered resistance, and kept pushing down. That's incredibly unsafe, and easy to fix: track actual vs expected position, and give up if any surprises are encountered.

> and easy to fix Yes, it is very easy to fix: remove the inefficient and entirely unnecessary robot arm and replace with sensors and electromagnets built into the chessboard so the chess engine can detect location of and move (magnetic) pieces electromagnetically.

Yeah, even better.

Re: A chess robot in Moscow has broken the finger of its human opponent

#90

Post by smsm42 »

It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only on the big political scene - it's everywhere, from a village grocery store to a national federation. If you admit any mistake and any responsibility for anything, you're an idiot and a "loch" (pronounced the same as Scottish lake, but means a person to be taken advantage of, one that is too stupid to take care of oneself and deserves to be cheated and mistreated). It's a culture-wide thing. And denying responsibility and lying is not considered really shameful in such situation - it's the expected behavior and getting away with it is a sign you are powerful and worthy of respect.
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