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A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

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Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#511

Post by rglullis »

jjulius wrote: post #505
rglullis wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're not doing more to speak out about FB's bullshit "Actions speak louder than words". I care very little about what they are they "speaking out" about. My point is that Facebook's reputation is not new. Its privacy abuses, the practices for exploiting user data for their own benefit, their "move fast and break things" mentality that applies even to things that affect the social fabric of the whole world ... ev…

I don't disagree with your general statement, but you have no idea when OP worked there, you have no idea why they joined, and you have no idea why they left. Were they there pre-2010? Did they join after thinking maybe it wasn't so bad and then quit when they found out it was? We don't know, because you won't ask. Again, I agree with your general views on FB. But when there's someone right in front of me, I'm gonna…

> I don't disagree with your general statement, but you have no idea when OP worked there, you have no idea why they joined, and you have no idea why they left.

I already responded on another comment: it's not about the individual and it's not about wishing ill of anyone. Hate the sin, but love the sinner, and all that...

In any case, I knew that OP's name was familiar, so I went to look at his history. If you do the same, you will find a comment where he will talk about "being excluded from the banking system". [0] The part he doesn't say (here, but it is on his LinkedIn) is that he was "CTO" on xSigma, which is one of the many "revolutionary DeFI" projects that took a lot of money from gullible fools and now have nothing of value to show for it. Not only that, he also uses that same comment as an opportunity to shill for his next project.

IOW, even though I didn't enter the conversation to "pile on" against the individual, in this particular case the evidence is really stacked against him.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31861753

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#512

Post by pvg »

Groxx wrote: post #508
pvg wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the security person at Best Buy stops you to check if your receipt matches what's in your cart when you head out, they're not accusing you of theft.

That's not even remotely what happened here though. When they stop you, say "you stole that", ignore that your receipt says you paid, kick you out of the store, and stop you from coming back, they are pretty clearly accusing you of theft. That's a straightforward translation of what Twitter did.

Whatever 'translation' you choose, none of it comes anywhere close to accusation of a crime. It's pretty plain from reading the message and the policy. You have to lean pretty far into bombast to turn it into that. Which, if that's how you choose, to read it, fair enough but it has no basis in any of Twitter's actual communication with this user.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#513

Post by eckesicle »

leviathant wrote: post #366
eckesicle wrote: post #179

It's interesting to read the comments here and the debate around whether social media counts as a public square or not. Ultimately, the web, and social media, is where a majority of our citizens spend a large chunk of their time. While it's certainly true, that you don't _need_ to access them to live your life, for the vast majority of us it would be more than an inconvenience to be banned. In all other aspects of ou…

>In all other aspects of our lives, we do not accept rules imposed upon us by a large private actor. There are courts, and appeals processes, and politicians, and other channels through which we can assert our societal norms. Out of curiosity, where do you live? Where I live, I accept that my phone will receive unsolicited robocalls and texts, and that the majority of mail delivered to my address is, similarly, unsol…

I live in the UK.

Many of the things you mention are reasons why I would never consider making the US my permanent home.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#514

Post by eckesicle »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #352
eckesicle wrote: post #179

It's interesting to read the comments here and the debate around whether social media counts as a public square or not. Ultimately, the web, and social media, is where a majority of our citizens spend a large chunk of their time. While it's certainly true, that you don't _need_ to access them to live your life, for the vast majority of us it would be more than an inconvenience to be banned. In all other aspects of ou…

> These private companies should be considered access points to the social graph, not owners of it, and therefore regulated as such. Okay, but how ? Every time I see calls for regulation, I don't see any specifics. Regulation isn't a magic wand that solves all problems you don't like while keeping the parts you want to keep. We got regulation for cookies, and now we're all doomed to click cookie banners on every webs…

Just spitballing:

Then pass a law that says any company with a user count exceeding 100,000 must not prevent access or disable an account unless the user in question breaks the law on the platform.

Then establish a simplified claims court, where for a nominal fee, say £500, you could apply to have your case reviewed by an independent judge.

If you lose, you forfeit the funds, and have to pay the costs to the company you claim against, capped at a reasonable fee. Say another £500.

If you win, the company pays the costs, nominal damages, and must also reinstate your account.

If you cannot run your business at scale without externalising the costs on innocent users through false positives, then the business shouldn't be running at all.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#515

Post by eckesicle »

didibus wrote: post #364
eckesicle wrote: post #179

It's interesting to read the comments here and the debate around whether social media counts as a public square or not. Ultimately, the web, and social media, is where a majority of our citizens spend a large chunk of their time. While it's certainly true, that you don't _need_ to access them to live your life, for the vast majority of us it would be more than an inconvenience to be banned. In all other aspects of ou…

If we go one step back, bars, clubs, pubs, discos, and churches/worship places were where a majority of people spent their socializing time in prior to social media platforms. Those places would routinely throw people out and all had bouncers and sometimes gatekeepers for entry and all that. There are certain specific patterns that we did regulate, like the tradition where certain gender or race weren't allowed in th…

Your comparison falls short though, because there's not really a historical equivalent we can compare to.

Being banned from social media is not like being thrown out of a pub by a bouncer. It's like being thrown out of every pub, nightclub, and church by the bouncer.

If I may take an example from my own life: if I were to be banned from WhatsApp, I would not be able to

* take part in my son's school group and social events. * participate in the neighbourhood group * participate in my local sports team * participate in the local party * participate in the business * participate in my university alumni group

WhatsApp completely owns the social graph where I live. Almost to the point where one would not be able to live without it. A false positive ban would be catastrophic for me.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#516

Post by eckesicle »

Thorrez wrote: post #361
eckesicle wrote: post #179

It's interesting to read the comments here and the debate around whether social media counts as a public square or not. Ultimately, the web, and social media, is where a majority of our citizens spend a large chunk of their time. While it's certainly true, that you don't _need_ to access them to live your life, for the vast majority of us it would be more than an inconvenience to be banned. In all other aspects of ou…

>In all other aspects of our lives, we do not accept rules imposed upon us by a large private actor. Sure Amtrak is government-run, but many other things we use on a daily basis aren't. Restaurants and stores have their own rules and can kick you out if they think you violated them, without much recourse for you if they were wrong.

see my other comment. In short: it's not like being kicked out of a restaurant, it's like being kicked out of every restaurant.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#517

Post by Groxx »

pvg wrote: post #512
Groxx wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even remotely what happened here though. When they stop you, say "you stole that", ignore that your receipt says you paid, kick you out of the store, and stop you from coming back, they are pretty clearly accusing you of theft. That's a straightforward translation of what Twitter did.

Whatever 'translation' you choose, none of it comes anywhere close to accusation of a crime. It's pretty plain from reading the message and the policy. You have to lean pretty far into bombast to turn it into that. Which, if that's how you choose, to read it, fair enough but it has no basis in any of Twitter's actual communication with this user.

No?

If I say "you distribute revenge porn", I'm accusing you of a crime. There's no ambiguity there. Revenge porn is a criminal act nearly everywhere. In some states and some situations, it's even a felony, which is a significant step up in severity.

I haven't informed your local authorities that you do this. But that doesn't have any affect on whether or not I am accusing you.

>An accusation is informally stating that a person has committed an illegal or immoral act. - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accusation

Twitter has unambiguously made the claim that they are tweeting revenge porn. Twitter has clearly stated that doing so is the reason their account is banned. They're accusing them of a crime.

It's not bombastic or stretching, it's the literal description of what Twitter (via their bot and their review process) is doing.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#518

Post by eckesicle »

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #362
eckesicle wrote: post #179

It's interesting to read the comments here and the debate around whether social media counts as a public square or not. Ultimately, the web, and social media, is where a majority of our citizens spend a large chunk of their time. While it's certainly true, that you don't _need_ to access them to live your life, for the vast majority of us it would be more than an inconvenience to be banned. In all other aspects of ou…

We want government to run or regulate these systems as long as we trust the government but what happens when we don't trust the government anymore? Like for example if in this years midterms there's a Congressional supermajority, and then the president is elected from that same party two years later and the courts are of that party. Will we really want government regulations if things? There would be widespread mistr…

For all it's failures the government and courts do a good job at mediating disputes in every other aspect of our lives, so why not this one too?

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#519

Post by carbadtraingood »

fortran77 wrote: post #441
carbadtraingood wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Are you planning on running your own Daily Stormer or 8chan? It's not a slippery slope, it's not harder to run your own website. Don't extrapolate from a few extremist cases.

I've seen people that had contrary, skeptical, positions on Sudden Onset Gender Dysphoria get deplatformed by hosting providers.

Good.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#520

Post by carbadtraingood »

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #351
carbadtraingood wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn't about being banned on Twitter. It's about automated moderation (a side effect of which is, yes, a Twitter ban.)

The title of the article is litteraly "How a Clip From Stray Got Me Banned From Twitter". I fail to see why also discussing the reason of the ban takes anything away from my original point.

Because the thesis is that automoderation is a problem. The entire point of the article is using Twitter as an example of a problem, not the root problem itself.
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