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What I don’t like about working at a remote job

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Re: What I don’t like about working at a remote job

#181

Post by rtpg »

lars512 wrote: post #156
getYeGone wrote: post #149

I graduated in 2020 into what was supposed to be a “regular” in-person job, that was turned into a fully remote job due to Covid. I ended up hating it there, and since have found a new primarily-remote job that I love. My life feels hopeless. I wake up, go to the gym, and then work from 9–8. I work so much because I have nothing better to do. Then I watch a movie or some garbage on YouTube and go to bed. I have no fr…

To make new friends, you should try to find an activity you enjoy and a group you can join regularly (e.g. a meetup). If the activities are weekly, one could be enough. If monthly, pick up a couple of different ones. Over months you end up slowly building the relationships with others that you’ve missed. I had to do this after moving to a new country, it made a big difference in the end.

And it might be tough but if you find an online community (like a discord or a forum) you should definitely reach out to people you interact with enough. It’s possible to build friendships with people online, but it requires a bit more courage.

At the very least having more people to chat with can really change the texture of life

Re: What I don’t like about working at a remote job

#182

Post by montag »

tpmoney wrote: post #71
_s wrote: post #27

Working from home, or remotely is not for everyone - neither is being in an office. Some folks thrive in an office environment, they value the things it provides - a schedule, a time, a reason to get up and out, socialising with others, being out in the world. It comes at a cost of time and a bit of freedom; you don't really get to choose the hours or where this happens, neither the folks you interact with. Others pr…

>There is also a somewhat of divide between introverts and extroverts between which they prefer, but of course - there are many in either camp leaning the other way too. Yeah, as an introvert, seeing the constant assertion that only extroverts want to work from the office is very frustrating. It is because I am an introvert that I want to work from the office. Sure, I struggle with interacting with people in general…

Absolutely, 100% this. Also, I really appreciate how candid the author of the article is. Why is it so hard to admit our human foibles?

Re: What I don’t like about working at a remote job

#183

Post by UweSchmidt »

epicureanideal wrote: post #176
lars512 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make new friends, you should try to find an activity you enjoy and a group you can join regularly (e.g. a meetup). If the activities are weekly, one could be enough. If monthly, pick up a couple of different ones. Over months you end up slowly building the relationships with others that you’ve missed. I had to do this after moving to a new country, it made a big difference in the end.

Good advice, but difficult in practice. Many activities stopped meeting in person during the pandemic and have barely started to resume them. And there are fewer than you would think. Has anyone had success with this that they can share?

I started playing tennis again, building on some basics I learned as a kid. Joined a local club, and was dumbfounded why no one was playing on beautiful weekend summer days. The sport has declined a little but still, where is eveyone?

Turns out all the action is at the organized league play with teams of 6, playing at home or travelling to nearby clubs. Through age groups and play modus anyone who can nominally complete a match skill-and fitness wise can join and contribute both to team success and social life surrounding the play. Through the shared activity you can connect, and meet for a match before joining people for non-tennis activities, before "making a friend as an adult".

So yes, the social structures are eroding rapidly and this will have major consequences for society, but there are still pockets left that you'll have to go out and find.

Re: What I don’t like about working at a remote job

#184

Post by UweSchmidt »

ido wrote: post #180
bowsamic wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an epidemic right now frankly. A lot of people your age are struggling to find and maintain any kind of social connection and live a totally isolated life. It isn’t surprising, we aren’t used to having to go out of our way to find any social situation. It’s entirely possible to live without talking to anyone. Unfortunately for some reason it quickly becomes misanthropic too, especially if you have dep…

I agree about your assessments of north-Germans, but I haven't found south-Germans (or at least Austrians, which everyone tell me are ± the same as Bavarians) any better - in fact in my 8 years in Vienna I found the natives a lot less friendly/colder than in my now 9 years in Berlin.

Berlin isn't "north-German" culturally, it is a very distinct cultural sphere and probably good for making some friends.

Note that behind the aparent coldness of Germans lies a promise of eternal, deep friendship once you break through :-)

Re: What I don’t like about working at a remote job

#185

Post by Blahah »

felipellrocha wrote: post #136
Sparkle-san wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Be deliberate about arranging calls with coworkers, friends, family. Just hang out on a call. Go for a walk while you take these calls, or do something other than sit in a chair. I'll second this. I started a new remote job recently where we're encouraged to regularly schedule virtual coffee time with coworkers where we don't talk about work. It goes a long way towards fostering relationships.

You're telling me your solution is to do the same thing we used to do with forced birthday party celebrations, but more frequently? UGH!

Personally I don't really enjoy group or regularly scheduled mandatory hangout calls. What I really enjoy is just pinging someone to say 'hey, free to chat after work?' and then if they are I go for a walk and call them.

Re: What I don’t like about working at a remote job

#186

Post by bowsamic »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #184
ido wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree about your assessments of north-Germans, but I haven't found south-Germans (or at least Austrians, which everyone tell me are ± the same as Bavarians) any better - in fact in my 8 years in Vienna I found the natives a lot less friendly/colder than in my now 9 years in Berlin.

Berlin isn't "north-German" culturally, it is a very distinct cultural sphere and probably good for making some friends. Note that behind the aparent coldness of Germans lies a promise of eternal, deep friendship once you break through :-)

Yeah I live in Hamburg and you basically have to stick with non Germans if you want to make friends in a reasonable timeframe. Many native Germans seem to guard friendship as an extremely precious thing that should only be given after much deliberation, while in a lot of other cultures it is given out relatively freely, after just one or two meetings even

Re: What I don’t like about working at a remote job

#187

Post by peoplefromibiza »

throwaway821909 wrote: post #23
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as someone who has no problem with WFH, working from home for (and with) someone you don't ever encounter in real life can easily get people depressed. most people seek for meaningful relationships and purpose in life, not just paychecks. it's not people's fault if that particular way of working can lead to depression.

There are exceptions and I see how it can act as a sort of safety net group of acquaintances on which you can build... but for most people, work has got to be the worst place to find meaningful relationships and purpose, hasn't it? You can be made redundant in a moment and lose contact, there's money, an explicit hierarchy, and competition making everything awkward, and the purpose is usually questionable (hence the…

> but for most people, work has got to be the worst place to find meaningful relationships and purpose, hasn't it?

why?

it's not the best or the worst, it's one of the many places people spend time.

it also depends a lot on people's age, when I was young I made friends with people I worked with of my same age and at first experiences like me, we are still friends.

Now I mostly am there to do my job, meetings and be the "uncle" of younger co-workers.

is there a particular reason why college or the gym should be considered a better place to form bonds, except for people expectations?

> You can be made redundant in a moment and lose contact,

or you could move and lose contact...

or you could keep in touch because you became friends.

There's no general rule.

> there's money, an explicit hierarchy, and competition

I believe this mostly boils down to cultural differences, where I am from co-workers rarely compete fiercely and hierarchies are mostly not very deep, work is not organized like the military here.

It is probably less efficient, but it makes the work more stable, so people work at the same company for much longer on average and they do actually consider co-workers friends or at least people you have to interact with everyday, so why not make the best out of it.

Re: What I don’t like about working at a remote job

#188

Post by saiya-jin »

epicureanideal wrote: post #176
lars512 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make new friends, you should try to find an activity you enjoy and a group you can join regularly (e.g. a meetup). If the activities are weekly, one could be enough. If monthly, pick up a couple of different ones. Over months you end up slowly building the relationships with others that you’ve missed. I had to do this after moving to a new country, it made a big difference in the end.

Good advice, but difficult in practice. Many activities stopped meeting in person during the pandemic and have barely started to resume them. And there are fewer than you would think. Has anyone had success with this that they can share?

Climbing - you already go to gym so are in above-average shape. Its a sport for 2 usually. In pre-covid (and pre-children) times I used to organize 1x per week a climbing session on our local meetup-like web. Usually 4-6 people showed up, often new ones.

Eventually you will meet interesting people. Even some girls who may have similar mindset to yours. I've met more (former) girlfriends through this than any other means, and eventually my wife.

I consider it the best sport out there due to mental aspect of it, especially on rock (and ski touring in winter). But if thats really not your cup of tea, look for other sports. Team ones, or some course where you end up with bunch of others. Just expose yourself to the crowds, even if its not that pleasant for ie introverts (like me).

Doing above, I've regularly ended up with more close people than I could possibly manage to keep friendship with. Also non-trivial number of ladies were keen to meet for other adventures like hiking, ski touring etc. Tons of people are wanting to do these sports, but they need some buddies.

Re: What I don’t like about working at a remote job

#189

Post by UweSchmidt »

silisili wrote: post #152
yosito wrote: post #151

> It’s extremely hard to be friends with your co-workers. You have to go out of your way to reach out and be available. Friendships don’t happen “organically” like they do in the office Are people actually friends with their coworkers? I'm friendly with my coworkers, but I find actual friendship to be a conflict of interest. This is why I love working from coworking spaces. I can be friends with everyone I spend the…

I feel similarly. I happen to work with a lady who, being honest, shouldn't be a programmer at all, and basically just creates messes. But she is the kindest person, and at meetups is probably one of the friendliest and most talkative people. And not in a fake sugar cover my ass way or anything, a real genuine person. I wouldn't call us friends by any means, but man does it create this giant conflict of interest in m…

"Conflict of interest"?

Understandable, but still weird: Is it our job to enforce work quality and productivity from our colleagues? Has "The Man" made us turn on each other?

I found that managers (representing the business) are not primarily focussed on eliminating underperformers; instead they are trying to have work done within the constraints they have - recruiting and retaining competent employees being a major constraint in today's workplace. It is management itself that wants you to work around and cover for weaker colleagues. Your boss is likely operating on a macro level, trying to defend the entire team through the ups and down of corporate restructurings.

I have realized that it was my own ego acting up, wanting to be seen as 'better', and complaining about 'unfair' work distribution. The honourable path is to try and enable the weaker team members, there are always tickets they can handle right? If you carry a heavier load, make sure it is reflected in your salary accordingly.

Re: What I don’t like about working at a remote job

#190

Post by saiya-jin »

watwut wrote: post #168
Xcelerate wrote: post #135

Everyone talks about losing focus at home, oversleeping, and doing other activities during the work day. For some reason I've had the opposite problem. I used to get into the office around 8 AM, take a lunch break, go grab dessert or take a walk in the garden later, etc. Then I'd leave around 4:30 PM and forget about work until the next day. Now I wake up at 5:00 AM and basically work non-stop in the same spot (somet…

> oversleeping It is nit overstepping, it is finally having chance to sleep away that sleep debt. But for the rest, what actually worked for me was to have commitment at end of workday. Ideally something that forces you to finish (a gym class, activity with friend/kids etc). But even if not, something as simple ritual of "I play guitar 17:00 sharp for 15 minutes and then exercise another 15 minutes" did the trick. It…

sleep debt is not something you need 6 months to cover, more like a long weekend or a week max if something obscure had happened (ie 2 month long drug binge running at the limit of exhaustion)
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