Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#471

Post by schwartzworld » Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 5:14 AM UTC

celdon25 wrote: post #467

maxwell wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You only get 15-30 days of vacation per year. This is why I'm glad to have "unlimited" PTO (subject to manager approval + must be requested at least the duration in advance, e.g. 2 weeks notice for 2 weeks off), along with a few annual company-wide breaks and an earned month-long break every 3 years.

Unlimited PTO is often abused as way to prevent workers from feeling like they have the ability to take vacations when they need them.

Other benefits for the company (not the worker):

- don't have to pay out employees who didn't take their vacation - nobody taking vacation to use expiring vacation days - employees take less vacation in general

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#472

Post by schwartzworld » Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 5:25 AM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #19

Agree in principle. My approach would not be quite that categorical/binary though, for couple of reasons 1. Sometimes salary ranges are wide enough to not be meaningful - i.e. 80-200k 2. When I'm in the hiring manager role these days, there are roles for which I have limited to no flexibility; but also roles for which I have or can fight for flexibility for the right candidate. If I post e.g. (random numbers) 100-120…

Are you saying that 2 different people could apply for the same (or equivalent) roles and you would actually pay one 2.5 times as much as the other for the same work?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#473

Post by BeefWellington » Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 5:42 AM UTC

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

Ads are one part of the equation but being actively searched out by recruiters who can't provide salary information is frustrating as someone with experience. I've gone through similar frustrations to other posters here where someone attempted to recruit me and gave me the old handwave "salary will be discussed later but I'm sure it can be worked out" and after multiple interviews they offered me roughly 50% of my base compensation at my (then current) role.

It was a waste of everyone's time. Providing salary information isn't about finding the ideal place but filtering out the places that aren't in the same ballpark.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#474

Post by adave » Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 6:08 AM UTC

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

Fount the HM/Recruiter with their skewed up anecdotal data. Usually bad jobs hide behind lack of salary data and just like companies want to evaluate me, I want to evaluate them first.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#475

Post by speedgoose » Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 6:13 AM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #298

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

My primary reason for where I work is my salary (FAANG), and I have never been happier with my job. I work to live, not live to work.

You can also have an exciting work that fits your interests because life is short and it is better to enjoy most of your work hours.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#476

Post by Trias11 » Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 6:24 AM UTC

Nothing prevents you to ask about salary range at the very first conversation.

Just specify that "depends on experience" or "we're competitive" or "industry standard" BS is not going to fly.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#477

Post by conro1108 » Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 6:27 AM UTC

ThePadawan wrote: post #41

ElijahLynn wrote: post #22

This is true. I respond to most recruiters now that I won't even talk to them without a salary range. And then they send it right over.

I personally find that 90% of the responses I get to salary requests are: "I would love to chat to you on the phone about this on the phone with you!" "How dare you ask me that, you should be thankful for me even writing to you with this incredibly vague offer in the first place." I tried responding to ~20 recruiters with a copy-pasted question about salary, and none responded with anything even close to a salary ran…

I have a similar approach that works well, you just need one more filtering step.

Anyone who reacts negatively to the salary request, you ignore and move on. Don't even bother replying.

For the "lets hop on a call" folks, I have a second copy-paste that just politely states that my schedule is tight between interviewing and my day job and that I want to ensure a reasonable fit is possible before investing a lot of time.

Anyone who _still_ hasn't given a clear answer after those 2 tries I stop replying to.

To be clear, well north of 90% of inbound linkedin recruiters will fail this test, but I've found it to be a surprisingly low-effort way to separate valid opportunities from uninteresting recruiter spam

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#478

Post by anonymous_dev » Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 6:53 AM UTC

No salary range usually means salary dumping.

Where I work the management play this game, job postings without salary range and then they try the lower possible offer.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#479

Post by mns » Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 7:10 AM UTC

b20000 wrote: post #334

dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

This is also why you should not agree to do coding interviews.

I feel like in the last years the level of arrogance of developers has reached a peak - somehow the market being full of opportunities, people seem to forget that there are others out there getting paid way less, doing critical things for society and going through way more stressful situations than the pain of not knowing what new shiny language to chose for your next microservice.

As having a developer background that switched more towards management now, how do you expect companies to hire? From what I see take at home tasks are not ok, making everyone loose their minds, technical interviews are also not ok, then what? The attitude of developers now is: 30 minute interview in which the company needs to offer 100% salary increase compared to previous job, pay the developer a full day as he took 30 minutes for you and then just hire him based on his CV in which he lists all possible technologies in the world that he read about once in an article or wrote a to-do app 3 years ago.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#480

Post by shultays » Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 7:33 AM UTC

speedgoose wrote: post #475

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My primary reason for where I work is my salary (FAANG), and I have never been happier with my job. I work to live, not live to work.

You can also have an exciting work that fits your interests because life is short and it is better to enjoy most of your work hours.

And once your job becomes non-interesting, what do you do? Quit? How many times?

I expect some excitement from my work but in the end it is just work. I work 8 hours and they pay me for that. I think having that personal attachment to your work and expecting more from it leads to early burn out when things are not going great