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Hertz paid Accenture $32M for a website that never went live (2019)

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Re: Hertz paid Accenture $32M for a website that never went live (2019)

#181

It’s impossible to overstate how funny the shenanigans get when you combine a technologically incompetent legacy big Co. with one of these big professional services firms. The IT consulting firm will tell you they have experience with literally everything. They’ll dig up a case study from one of their 400 offices somewhere, claiming to be experts on whatever the topic is. Meanwhile, in actuality, your project will be…

And then you get posts from experts like you convinced there’s really some big picture goal to technology; that you’re not just optimizing for employment yourself.

Re: Hertz paid Accenture $32M for a website that never went live (2019)

#182

It’s impossible to overstate how funny the shenanigans get when you combine a technologically incompetent legacy big Co. with one of these big professional services firms. The IT consulting firm will tell you they have experience with literally everything. They’ll dig up a case study from one of their 400 offices somewhere, claiming to be experts on whatever the topic is. Meanwhile, in actuality, your project will be…

You said it perfectly. When I read "Agile Model" I could already see it, Accenture signing a Time & Materials contract, giving no shit about the badly detailed scope on the clients side (after all this means more hours), and some bad PMing on both sides. I bet the responsive detail was not clearly stated on the scope, Accenture noticed it but let it pass since it is T&M... I'm an ex-Accenture (and also ex-IBM iX, tha…

Agile/Scrum is perfect for such consulting engagements - there is a measurable easily reportable progress every sprint while nothing real gets achieved in any reasonable time, and the customer seeing/accepting that incremental progress is de-facto almost waiving its right to demand the final result.

Re: Hertz paid Accenture $32M for a website that never went live (2019)

#183
When people say "software is eating the world," this is what they are talking about. When mastering the software development cycle becomes a strong differentiator in an industry, inept companies (like Hertz in this case) get fleeced by rent-a-coder firms that get paid the same no matter the usefulness or reusability of their code. They end up, hopefully, spiralling into irrelevance while competitors who are able to harness software to their advantage win out over time.

Hertz is even suing Accenture to recoup the development cost, but it seems they are missing the bigger problem, which is that their aging digital presence has probably harmed their ability to acquire or retain customers to a bigger extent than the lost cost of development...

Re: Hertz paid Accenture $32M for a website that never went live (2019)

#185

It’s impossible to overstate how funny the shenanigans get when you combine a technologically incompetent legacy big Co. with one of these big professional services firms. The IT consulting firm will tell you they have experience with literally everything. They’ll dig up a case study from one of their 400 offices somewhere, claiming to be experts on whatever the topic is. Meanwhile, in actuality, your project will be…

And then you get posts from experts like you convinced there’s really some big picture goal to technology; that you’re not just optimizing for employment yourself.

I actually genuinely value doing a good job. I genuinely hate being put under pressure to deliver stuff that looks good but is actually bad. It feels awful to me. I've built my career around avoiding this.

I'm not trying to claim moral superiority here or anything. Figuring out tricky ways to get the clueless rich to enthusiastically give up their money can probably be argued to be a moral good, provided the money isn't just going to some other even richer people. I'm just intellectually and emotionally unsuited to it.

Maybe I am just optimizing my employment the only way I know how, because I'm not suited to the more powerful ways.

Re: Hertz paid Accenture $32M for a website that never went live (2019)

#186
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

24 year olds? Since when are they sending the senior consultants out on engagements like this! I lasted not even 6 months working in professional services, really woke me up to what "prestigious careers" really are.

LOL and true to my experience. In the 80's was a United Airlines employee on a project where Arthur Anderson (aka Accenture) was the consultant. The project included approximately 75 entry level AA programmers that were brought to the office on two big buses. My job was to write specs for them. The specs had to be 100% detailed, every "if", every "loop", except that I had to follow the AA methodology and write the en…

Say what you will about the Jira process, there is no climbing involved...

Re: Hertz paid Accenture $32M for a website that never went live (2019)

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only reason these companies are successful is that the top execs are friends with the other execs at fortune 500 companies so they mostly figure out a way to spin it as a success so everyone gets their bonuses even if no value was created. It's also usually that the big companies are so incompetent that paying 20 million dollars for nothing is still cheaper than hiring their own people to do it in house and end…

It's not so much that their own people, i.e. the actual doers are incompetent, its thats the management structure is, so they are set up for failure. And yes it might take longer, and cost more, as they need to hire etc opex, get more scrutiny, can't try and fix the problem by throwing more devs at it at a drop of a hat etc.

Generally speaking individuals who work at large contracting firms either do so due to immigration status or because they’re either not experienced or technically incompetent. The tech market offers full-time positions with wonderful salaries. Why would anyone want to work at one of these firms? It’s because they can’t land any better job and can hide their moving between multiple projects frequently due to ineptness as “short term projects”.

Re: Hertz paid Accenture $32M for a website that never went live (2019)

#188

I really don’t understand how Accenture is as big as they are or how they truly provide value to the world. I just don’t understand it. Im not trying to be sarcastic. I’ve been scratching my head trying to understand this since I created my own consulting firm years ago. Please, sincerely, explain it to me.

Arthur Andersen was the largest and most successful accounting firms, as such they had deep business contacts with basically the entire business world.

As mainframes moved from the white glove ivory tower to more access for programmers, then to minicomputers, then especially in the microcomputer revolution of the 1990s, Arthur Andersen was well connected to sell IT and development services to a very very large range of clients. This wing was "Andersen Consulting".

Andersen Consulting's partners got tired of taking all these sweet revenues and shoveling them to the tax partners of Arthur Andersen, so they split off in 1998 or 1997 or so, and became Accenture.

Also around this time, Accenture signed many deals to outsource entire IT departments to them. Stupid companies not seeing IT as one of the primary efficiency and market advantages (see:Amazon) but instead as an annoying cost center jumped at the chance. This made them beholden to Accenture.

Anyway, Accenture had the salespeople and contacts, the size, and the reputation of being able to deliver large projects, or they'd stick them out. Would they be great? No. But they'd stick it out.

All the big 6: CoopersLybrand, Ernst and Young, Deloitte, Price Waterhouse, KPMG, were all in on it at this point. But Accenture had the largest partner-to-workerbee ratio, so they raked in the cash. Accenture had the ability to hire armies of workers, rarely from computer science backgrounds, crash course them in programming over 6 weeks, and then shuttle them off to be vastly overpriced consultants. They even had their own private college for this (St. Charles).

Basically, they had contacts and a good enough pipeline to create worker bee programmers for large projects.

The partners generally came up the ranks so they could speak the IT lingo, and they were promoted/selected based on ability to produce revenue and sales. With the huge size and contacts and labor pool, plus happily jumping into any and all software implementation.

Accenture and their ilk were also key for supplying huge numbers of people for SAP and other package implementations. Basically, these software companies couldn't muster the armies of implementers necessary to install and customize their software. Accenture and their ilk could. These ERP packages likely helped fuel the productivity boom (all of it went to the rich) of the Clinton era as computers went from 10s of MHz to gigahertz processers as well as memory and storage increases and the internet boomed.

You probably can't imagine an executive management team that is ignorant of IT and IT practices, and of course the old enterprises have plenty of these. These execs just wanted to hand off these annoying things to someone, and Accenture was there for them.

Modern executives need to be IT-aware. I'd say this is only very very very recent, with the rise of Amazon. Before then you'd have the CEO that proudly annouced they don't even know how to use Email.

Those CEOs are a dying breed. Your orgs will live and die by navigating the IT landscape. Amazon sucks for many reasons, but they do a lot right, and one of those things is "don't use consultants, build it in-house".

Re: Hertz paid Accenture $32M for a website that never went live (2019)

#189

I was at Accenture Digital, now rebranded as Accenture Song, when Hertz was a client in our office. Most projects had the same issues. I was hired as a developer to work on the front-end of a very ambitious app for one of the biggest oil companies in the world. One year later we delivered a crappy single page app, a relational database and some data pipelines, and in exchange we billed them no less than 20 million. I…

> The only reason these companies are successful is that the top execs are friends with the other execs at fortune 500 companies so they mostly figure out a way to spin it as a success so everyone gets their bonuses even if no value was created.

It is so bizarre that blowing $20M on a large, complex project that obviously fails can be rebranded as success. Its harder to pull that off with smaller projects and less stakeholders, but if a project is big enough, you can obfuscate the details and make it look like a win.

Re: Hertz paid Accenture $32M for a website that never went live (2019)

#190
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the title? When I was at a consulting firm in London that I wont name, I was charging them 700GBP a day, and they were charging the end client 1500GBP a day (I saw this on an internal presentation slide I was not supposed to see)

Your firm was charging just over 2x, but in the US it's not uncommon to see the client billed 3x what the consultant makes. This is especially true if there are subcontractors.

Pretty sure i was billed at 10x when I started at Andersen Consulting in 1990. My starting salary was 21.5k.
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