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I regret my website redesign

mtlynch.io

471–480 of 789 posts

Re: I regret my website redesign

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see cheap $4/hr developers, but I don't see anything specific about Fiverrs. Are you lumping them in together?

Yes. I don't mean literally $4/hr, but just any developer whose distinguishing feature is being cheaper than most other developers. I thought that was Fiverr's brand.

That's not their brand, at least not in the past 5 or so years. I've had significant success with Fiverr, many of which are not the cheapest. Certainly you can find the cheapest if that's what you want, but that's on any freelance platform.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#472

My heart goes out to this guy ... For those unaware, the blogger left a high-paying job at Google 4-years ago [1] to start his own business and over those last 4-years, unfortunately, hasn't really made any money/profit [2] His blog is a treasure trove of insights and lessons learned along the way. Highly recommend for others to read. [1] https://mtlynch.io/why-i-quit-google/ [2] https://mtlynch.io/solo-developer-yea…

Wait what. He worked for Google and is not able to build a website like this himself?

I did a lot of Python and C++ at Google. I'd be able to implement a nice ETL pipeline for the website, but Google didn't pay me for my design skills.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#473
This was painful to read. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

The price is extortionate in my opinion, you should have 100% used a good, solo freelancer.

And I'm shocked at how long they took to deliver that. This whole thing could have been done in a 2 weeks, a month maximum.

Take it as an expensive life lesson and I hope your business does so well that many years into the future, you laugh about this whole incident.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#474
I worked at WebAgency (not this one, another one) for 13 years, as a developer, designer, and in leadership roles. In my current role I'm on the other side of the table, dealing with contractors we outsource some of our product work to.

Your experience felt really familiar to me, symptomatic of badly managed projects I've been on both sides of. To be honest, it felt familiar in a way that evoked some emotional feelings I have from working on those kinds of projects for so long! Very few people want to rip off a small business owner, or to have a client feel like they've been swindled. Glad I'm out of that game.

What I'd like to add is that this can seem predatory, like Isaac was taking advantage of you, trying to wring you dry. That may be true (I don't know), but the same thing can easily happen when everybody has the best of intentions.

It is up to a PM to pump the breaks if they see designers or developers burning billable hours on things that won't help the project succeed. The Project Manager turnover you witnessed, and the CEO backfilling for them, happens surprisingly often. There's a lot of churn with PMs at these agencies, at the ones I worked for it felt like we could never keep them around. Since the harried CEO usually makes a horrible replacement for a full-time manager, it's not surprising he dropped the ball in this case.

In theory, it's also up to the designers and developers to manage their own time, but those folks are also often under pressure to be billing ~40 hours a week. If there is nothing for them to do but sit around, and your project is still active, I could see them filling their days working on unbidden ideas "to help you out". Again, I have no idea what happened in your case, but I have seen that before.

At the place I spent most of my time, our version of Isaac would have probably have refunded you a lot of that money, if indeed they really were busy with big clients (my guess is that's probably a line he gave you). It's a feast or famine business, and in feast times we refunded hours generously, both because we lived off referrals, and because we genuinely did not try to bleed our customers dry. It just worked out that way sometimes...

I will say that I think your takeaways from this experience are right on. I would also add that you shouldn't have to be the de facto project manager, but in practice that is the safest way to make sure you get what you want.

Meaning: schedule check-in meetings, find out what people are going to deliver and when, post up in their Slack, etc.

Good companies will appreciate your involvement, as long as you're not acting like a maniac, and when I think back to the most successful projects I worked on as a contractor, they all had some highly active contact on the client side.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#475
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got both of these on Fiverr for about $25 each - I'm very happy with both. - https://raw.githubusercontent.com/donatj/StandardOtter/dd3f2... - https://noteof.app/logo.svg

The noteof logo doesn't look like it would scale to small size very well. The gap between the top left corner of the N and the other elements seems too small.

https://noteof.app/favicon.ico I use just the tip of the eraser for the favicon.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#476

$46k for those changes holy fucking shit. I’ve charged less than this to design a whole 200m² house. I built a detailed 3d model, secured all the permissions and technical approvals, produced 30 A1 drawings, written a 200 page spec, coordinated engineering, tendered to contractors negotiated the tender, visited the site every two weeks for two years to check they were building it correctly and signed off on thier inv…

Am I out of touch? I think about 30-40k does not sound unreasonable for something like this. You have a redesign, with UX people improving your shopping and cart page + implementation + updating your maze of weird bootstrap theme to the new redesign.

I agree, I don't see it as outrageous at all. Agencies often charge too little then get scope creeped into overrunning their own labor, so smart agencies charge good money and write tight language in contracts to avoid it. It's very easy for a project that seems simple to solve to become a massive undertaking.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#477

Contrary to the author's assumption about disincentives, it seems like terminating the contract may have been why all the work suddenly got done. That's when the author went from a customer to a potential threat. If the agency hadn't completed the work (including the "no charge" fixes after the contract ended), I'm guessing we wouldn't have gotten a pseudonym for the agency and project lead.

I'm not following. What threat did I pose to the agency after they had all my money?

Re: I regret my website redesign

#478

$46k for those changes holy fucking shit. I’ve charged less than this to design a whole 200m² house. I built a detailed 3d model, secured all the permissions and technical approvals, produced 30 A1 drawings, written a 200 page spec, coordinated engineering, tendered to contractors negotiated the tender, visited the site every two weeks for two years to check they were building it correctly and signed off on thier inv…

What was that, five percent of the value of the house (land not included)? If so, seems reasonable.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#479
post #223
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt you could get that level of quality illustrations/logo from Fiverr, but I could be wrong. The actual page redesign, I agree - where would you recommend hiring a designer from if you don't actually know design, then?

I got both of these on Fiverr for about $25 each - I'm very happy with both. - https://raw.githubusercontent.com/donatj/StandardOtter/dd3f2... - https://noteof.app/logo.svg

I was skeptical, but I have to admit that the otter one is really nice.

I've hired on Upwork, and I don't find that level of quality. The original TinyPilot logo was actually from Upwork, but I paid $600.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#480

Thanks for sharing your story; as a developer/designer (more developer than designer; love C, no love for JavaScript), I hear stories such as yours practically everyday. What I really wanted to say is that I love your aviator gopher and the designer should have at least taken a shot at incorporating your gopher in the logo. I mocked-up a negative space [almost] one-colour logo with a close-up of a stylized gopher nos…

Thanks for reading!

I'll take the blame for dropping the chipmunk. I wanted the logo to appeal more to businesses, and I felt like the chipmunk came across as too playful, so I told them not to bother preserving it.

Your mock up looks pretty cool!

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