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Gitlab and remote work

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Re: Gitlab and remote work

#181

Post by JulesRosser »

flicken wrote: post #154
codegeek wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I will bite. I randomly checked one company called "MotorK" [0] and I found this line in the job description "Work remotely from any of the countries we operate in". So thats not work from anywhere in the world. I am sure devil is always in the details. I know this is 1 example but I doubt a company will hire from anywhere in the world and pay the same salaries to you. There always will be restrictions. Ok now I a…

> Ok now I am more curious. I looked at another company "Expensify" [1]. They actually want you to ideally relocate to one of their office locations :). So again, not fully remote anywhere in the world. I think employers say it casually but in practice, it is extremely difficult. Out of curiosity, what makes you think Expensify wants you to relocate? Relocation was not required or suggested when I interviewed with th…

Thanks for sharing this. That's correct, we are 100% remote first and you are not required to move to a city where we have offices. It's an optional perk.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#182

Post by JulesRosser »

codegeek wrote: post #75
wwarek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few months ago this[0] jobs platform for exactly that - remote, location-independent salary - was discussed on HN [1]. [0] https://remotewide.co/ [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31225138

Ok I will bite. I randomly checked one company called "MotorK" [0] and I found this line in the job description "Work remotely from any of the countries we operate in". So thats not work from anywhere in the world. I am sure devil is always in the details. I know this is 1 example but I doubt a company will hire from anywhere in the world and pay the same salaries to you. There always will be restrictions. Ok now I a…

I agree some companies don't really mean it when they claim to be remote first, but at Expensify we truly are. Please apply if you like the sound of our open roles :)

https://we.are.expensify.com/#workwithus

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#183

Post by chrisan »

rschachte wrote: post #141
codegeek wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the definition of "World Leader in Remote" be based on how they pay. Why can't it be based on the fact that they allow fully remote and pay reasonably well for your area. Who decides the definition ?

Well that would be fine and all but there are a zillion tech companies that allow remote work that pay reasonably well. It doesn’t mean they’re a world leader in remote work. I worked at a small company that paid me a lot, gave me free stuff, perks etc. It doesn’t mean they’re a world leader in remote work. It just means they offer those things. The point is — they are not a world leader in remote work. They are a te…

> They're only asking for an explanation of your metric: that location based pay grades preclude leadership in remote working. I have yet to see any reasonable case for why this should be?

Not sure how I reply to the comment below by lucideer, I guess HN has a limit on children?

Anywho, this is for him, not you :)

Isn't the burden of proof on the one making the claim?

I have yet to see a reasonable case for why they should be called a global leader when they treat their workers differently for the same output.

Inequality is never going to be associated with a leader in my mind. Maybe from a c-level suit perspective they seem like leaders because they are getting away with making more money at the expense of the people building the product.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#184

Post by nonameiguess »

JulesRosser wrote: post #182
codegeek wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I will bite. I randomly checked one company called "MotorK" [0] and I found this line in the job description "Work remotely from any of the countries we operate in". So thats not work from anywhere in the world. I am sure devil is always in the details. I know this is 1 example but I doubt a company will hire from anywhere in the world and pay the same salaries to you. There always will be restrictions. Ok now I a…

I agree some companies don't really mean it when they claim to be remote first, but at Expensify we truly are. Please apply if you like the sound of our open roles :) https://we.are.expensify.com/#workwithus

So how many developers do you actually hire out of Thailand? The prime minister of Thailand earns 3804 USD per year. If you seriously hire them at $380k, that's 100 times what the leader of their country earns. The US equivalent would be $40 million a year. Seemingly, every even remotely qualified person in the country would be rushing to apply. No need to immigrate and go through the Visa process? Earn enough money to buy your entire hometown within a few years?

Surely, there has to be some sufficiently motivated and intelligent person born in Thailand who is able to do the work you require. Have you hired any of them?

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#185

Post by makeitdouble »

baby wrote: post #172
makeitdouble wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"as little as they can afford" is still completely subjective, as they will pay more for an employee that is better valued on the market for any specific reason, regardless of the actual results once they join Gitlab. If tomorrow they declared they "need" to pay their employees 2x more to hire "A players" and get an edge on their competitors, we probably would have to take their word for it.

I'm not sure I understand. The way it works is that you look at the market where you're hiring someone, and seeing how people pay in that market (using different apps you can pay for). Then you decide which percentile you want to be part of (average payer, top payer, etc.) Of course I imagine that you can make up a number and say "I'll pay my employees X because I have money right now and this is what they deserve" b…

You set a range when looking for someone, but you’ll hit people that request more and can anchor their numbers onto something tangible (e.g. their previous pay). You’ll be paying that + alpha if you want them.

You can also set a range (let’s say “top payer”), and find no one that matches your criteria in that range. You’ll either choose to settle for lower requirements, or increase the pay to get people who match your requirements.

The above all sound logic, but in the end it’s a made up number for subjective requirements, so you might completely be paying any arbitrary number to satisfy your criteria.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#186

Post by BerislavLopac »

codegeek wrote: post #54
rnk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a list of companies that paid the same regardless of location. There were even a few bay area companies that didn't cut your pay when you moved away, I wish I had that handy.

Can you name a few who will pay a Senior Software Engineer the same salary in Bay Area vs say Bangalore, India ? I am curious.

https://primer.io

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#187

Post by JulesRosser »

nonameiguess wrote: post #184
JulesRosser wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree some companies don't really mean it when they claim to be remote first, but at Expensify we truly are. Please apply if you like the sound of our open roles :) https://we.are.expensify.com/#workwithus

So how many developers do you actually hire out of Thailand? The prime minister of Thailand earns 3804 USD per year. If you seriously hire them at $380k, that's 100 times what the leader of their country earns. The US equivalent would be $40 million a year. Seemingly, every even remotely qualified person in the country would be rushing to apply. No need to immigrate and go through the Visa process? Earn enough money…

I only see one recent applicant from Thailand, but we welcome applications regardless of where they live (with a few obvious exceptions). I don’t want to dox any colleagues by listing individual countries as we’re a relatively small company, but we have hired from 6/7 continents in the last 12 months (all except Antarctica).

Also happy to answer any other questions you have. And again, if anyone reading this is interested, please take a look at our open roles [0]. This is one of many, many things which makes the company great [1].

[0] https://we.are.expensify.com/#workwithus [1] https://we.are.expensify.com/benefits-perks

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#188

Post by [deleted] »

Barrin92 wrote: post #148
tomnipotent wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locally-adjusted pay is a fluke if revenues are not locally constrained (like a coffee shop). It's just another way employers try and nickle and dime workers, and it's sad that a large class of workers have been brainwashed to support it because somehow they're more upset at the other workers making more, than the company trying to pull a fast on on them. "But you would make so much more than your neighbors!". Fuck o…

>Locally-adjusted pay is a fluke if revenues are not locally constrained You don't get paid based on company revenue, you get paid based on the lowest amount you (or someone you're competing with) are willing to agree to sell your labour for. That amount is going to be lower if your cost of living is lower. People earning less if they work remotely in Podunk, Idaho compared to SF is no different from someone earning…

[deleted]

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#189

Post by bradlys »

tomnipotent wrote: post #137
fijiaarone wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually senior management takes this into account — they’d only be making 3 million if they lived in Fremont but since they live in Malibu they get $30 million plus a stipend for their SF penthouse.

How does HN have such ridiculous ideas of what other people are making? I had someone yesterday tell me that a mid-level marketing role at Stripe was pulling in 3-5M per year, and probably made 20M over their four years there. An SVP is pulling down a base of $300-600k, and stock comp (option grants & RSU's) may be doubling or even tripling that but very few are getting 10-100x base. Maybe C-levels, but even then I'd…

Varies a lot. I’ve seen people at smaller public companies get $5m+/yr offers and they managed maybe 15 people total. SV is weird - some people get really big offers.

With crazy stock valuations and growth - some people do be getting big stacks. They might’ve gotten a $300k + 600k offer but then it turns into $300k + 3000k because stock went up 5x. Happens a lot here.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#190

Post by shagie »

Tao3300 wrote: post #129
tristor wrote: post #89

I appreciate a lot of what Gitlab has done, but as someone who has been permanently remote for nearly a decade, I don't really consider them to be a leader in remote work. One of my biggest issues with Gitlab is that they pay based on locality, many other fully remote companies pay below Bay Area salaries, but they pay flat globally, meaning you can be location-independent without a pay-cut and it helps to bring in h…

Their location adjustment figures used to be open source. It was a flat text file of locations and coefficients. But they backpedaled on that, and last I looked you couldn't find them anymore and it had been replaced with vagueness. That's not leading. That's fleeing with your tail between your legs.

... and the digging: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/-/blob/4293020d...
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