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Gitlab and remote work

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Re: Gitlab and remote work

#141

Post by rschachte »

codegeek wrote: post #57
rschachte wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense relative to actual world leaders in tech that do not adjust pay based on location.

Why should the definition of "World Leader in Remote" be based on how they pay. Why can't it be based on the fact that they allow fully remote and pay reasonably well for your area. Who decides the definition ?

Well that would be fine and all but there are a zillion tech companies that allow remote work that pay reasonably well. It doesn’t mean they’re a world leader in remote work.

I worked at a small company that paid me a lot, gave me free stuff, perks etc. It doesn’t mean they’re a world leader in remote work. It just means they offer those things.

The point is — they are not a world leader in remote work. They are a tech company with perks and this is good marketing for them to convince people like you otherwise.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#142

Post by htormey »

Vinnl wrote: post #59
belter wrote: post #2

Still paying according to location for the same work?

What I don't get is: why would they pay more for someone from San Francisco? I'd expect the incentive to be to indeed pay the same for the same work, but that pay would be the lowest they can get away with. (i.e. I wouldn't expect that to lead to Silicon Valley salaries all over the world.) Unless it's not actually the same work, and location affects work. It does at least affect gross pay in any case, I suppose.

The Bay Area usually commands a premium because a) quality of talent b) the ability to scale out a team.

Quality of talent means not only intelligence and skill but also people who have spent years working on the specific thing you are building (hardware/firmware, AI, at scale codebases or services).

If you assume that timezone matter and relevant experience working in large orgs is important, the Bay Area premium will continue for the foreseeable future.

Scale means you can hire 100-200 talented IC's within a year that meet the quality of talent criteria and have experience working and getting things done in larger orgs, the ability to do so also commands a premium.

Only a few other places in the USA have this scale, i.e New York and Seattle.

Coinbase the company I work for is fully remote and does salary bands by location. Within the USA, Seattle/New York and the Bay Area all are in the same top tier band. Also, the majority of our USA engineering workforce is still based in these hubs despite being fully remote for nearly 2 years. I don't expect this trend to change any time soon.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#143

Post by throwaway110535 »

htormey wrote: post #142
Vinnl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is: why would they pay more for someone from San Francisco? I'd expect the incentive to be to indeed pay the same for the same work, but that pay would be the lowest they can get away with. (i.e. I wouldn't expect that to lead to Silicon Valley salaries all over the world.) Unless it's not actually the same work, and location affects work. It does at least affect gross pay in any case, I suppose.

The Bay Area usually commands a premium because a) quality of talent b) the ability to scale out a team. Quality of talent means not only intelligence and skill but also people who have spent years working on the specific thing you are building (hardware/firmware, AI, at scale codebases or services). If you assume that timezone matter and relevant experience working in large orgs is important, the Bay Area premium wi…

More like a) well-funded || revenue-generating firms competing in a limited pool of local talent and b) high salaries have yielded high costs of living, so to hire local, we must pay said premium

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#144

Post by htormey »

throwaway110535 wrote: post #143
htormey wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bay Area usually commands a premium because a) quality of talent b) the ability to scale out a team. Quality of talent means not only intelligence and skill but also people who have spent years working on the specific thing you are building (hardware/firmware, AI, at scale codebases or services). If you assume that timezone matter and relevant experience working in large orgs is important, the Bay Area premium wi…

More like a) well-funded || revenue-generating firms competing in a limited pool of local talent and b) high salaries have yielded high costs of living, so to hire local, we must pay said premium

Coinbase is fully remote, i.e no local talent pool dependency, with no expectation of coming into the office, can hire from anywhere in the USA and still it mainly hires people in those locations.

It's not the only remote company where I've noticed this happening.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#145

Post by [deleted] »

bastardoperator wrote: post #48
ROARosen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay according to location for the same bottle of Coke? How is work pay different? Why shouldn't payment for work be tied to local price ranges and cost of living?

Why would you pay two people doing the same job vastly different salaries because one lives in A and the other lives in B? That's the better question to be answered. I am not bottle of coke, and neither are my colleagues, we're humans, so your analogy makes zero sense.

[deleted]

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#146

Post by bombcar »

tomnipotent wrote: post #137
fijiaarone wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually senior management takes this into account — they’d only be making 3 million if they lived in Fremont but since they live in Malibu they get $30 million plus a stipend for their SF penthouse.

How does HN have such ridiculous ideas of what other people are making? I had someone yesterday tell me that a mid-level marketing role at Stripe was pulling in 3-5M per year, and probably made 20M over their four years there. An SVP is pulling down a base of $300-600k, and stock comp (option grants & RSU's) may be doubling or even tripling that but very few are getting 10-100x base. Maybe C-levels, but even then I'd…

People always take the outlier as the norm.

If you once got to work in 30 because there was absolutely no traffic, many people will from then on say it takes "30 minutes" to get to work, and be perpetually late.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#147

Post by [deleted] »

tristor wrote: post #89

I appreciate a lot of what Gitlab has done, but as someone who has been permanently remote for nearly a decade, I don't really consider them to be a leader in remote work. One of my biggest issues with Gitlab is that they pay based on locality, many other fully remote companies pay below Bay Area salaries, but they pay flat globally, meaning you can be location-independent without a pay-cut and it helps to bring in h…

[deleted]

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#148

Post by Barrin92 »

tomnipotent wrote: post #93
tristor wrote: post #89

I appreciate a lot of what Gitlab has done, but as someone who has been permanently remote for nearly a decade, I don't really consider them to be a leader in remote work. One of my biggest issues with Gitlab is that they pay based on locality, many other fully remote companies pay below Bay Area salaries, but they pay flat globally, meaning you can be location-independent without a pay-cut and it helps to bring in h…

Locally-adjusted pay is a fluke if revenues are not locally constrained (like a coffee shop). It's just another way employers try and nickle and dime workers, and it's sad that a large class of workers have been brainwashed to support it because somehow they're more upset at the other workers making more, than the company trying to pull a fast on on them. "But you would make so much more than your neighbors!". Fuck o…

>Locally-adjusted pay is a fluke if revenues are not locally constrained

You don't get paid based on company revenue, you get paid based on the lowest amount you (or someone you're competing with) are willing to agree to sell your labour for. That amount is going to be lower if your cost of living is lower. People earning less if they work remotely in Podunk, Idaho compared to SF is no different from someone earning less in Bangladesh than in Italy even if they do the same job.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#149

Post by ls15 »

tristor wrote: post #89

I appreciate a lot of what Gitlab has done, but as someone who has been permanently remote for nearly a decade, I don't really consider them to be a leader in remote work. One of my biggest issues with Gitlab is that they pay based on locality, many other fully remote companies pay below Bay Area salaries, but they pay flat globally, meaning you can be location-independent without a pay-cut and it helps to bring in h…

Does that also mean that remote employees can move from rural India to Manhattan or SF and get their pay adjusted for cost of living?

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#150

Post by itake »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #114
itake wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I interviewed there in 2017, when I (temporarily) lived in Argentina, I was told the role would pay $60k USD in Argentina pesos. Assuming they made no adjustments, In today's USD, my pay would of been $52k/yr due to currency value loss. Even in 'any market' their pay didn't make any sense.

I’m very sorry to jump out with this but there is no such thing as „would of”: https://grammarist.com/usage/would-have-wouldve-or-would-of/ .

:'(
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