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Estimate how many slaves work for you based on your possessions and lifestyle.

slaveryfootprint.org

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Re: Estimate how many slaves work for you based on your possessions and lifestyle.

#21

Post by zeteo »

Let's have a closer look at the "complex algorithm that determines the minimum number of slaves [...] used to produce each product" [1]. The basic data is supposedly taken from five official reports, but only one of these (the one they call "DOL" [2]) has anything direct to do with production of goods by forced labor.

Examining this report, it provides nothing more than a list of countries and goods for which forced labor plays a "significant" part, where significant is defined as anything but "an isolated incident of child labor or forced labor" ([2] p.7). There is no quantitative data in this list, which means that, for instance, if you own a T-shirt made of Argentinian cotton, there's no telling whether the probability this cotton was handled by a child laborer is 90% or 0.1%.

Thus it is impossible to estimate any number of "slaves" from such data, and the methodology is complete and utter BS.

[1] http://slaveryfootprint.org/about/#methodology

[2] http://www.dol.gov/ilab/programs/ocft/pdf/2010TVPRA.pdf

Re: Estimate how many slaves work for you based on your possessions and lifestyle.

#24

Post by DanBC »

RockyMcNuts wrote: post #15

Crappy job slave. Yeah, anything nice we have or use is thanks to people with crappy jobs... but there are people lining up out the door for those jobs, as they offer a better life than subsistence farming or scavenging garbage and living in a favela. And the places where those jobs don't exist are even worse off. Not to excuse the creation of inhuman living and working conditions. But better to work for appropriate…

Debt Bondage is real. People are not lining up out the door to replace people in debt-bondage slavery.

(http://www.ilo.org/global/topics/forced-labour/lang--en/inde...)

Re: Estimate how many slaves work for you based on your possessions and lifestyle.

#25

Post by nightski »

yelsgib wrote: post #20
marvin wrote: post #6

A lot of the moral judgements made on the linked site about a materialistic lifestyle don't really have anything to do with the fact that people in the west are evil, but rather that the culture in certain parts of the world where manufacturing takes place is conductive to exploitation. For instance, if I buy a diamond ring, I am not responsible for lives taken with weapons that have been bought with diamonds. If I d…

If you lived next to a diamond mine, you probably wouldn't buy diamond rings. I say this because I assume you are a compassionate/empathetic person to some degree, and I think it would be very difficult for you to separate out your feelings towards the terrible conditions/bloodshed involved in diamond mining and the shining ring that you just bought from the smiling slave-driver. The only reason that you could ever b…

It's pretty obvious that if you stop drinking CC, no one else will stop because you did. Meaning the events are conditionally independent. In my opinion, rallying large groups of people is the only way to make a difference. So really day to day choices you make on what to purchase have no effect on the system.

I would argue that the only real way to change is attempting to effect group think. Individual purchase decisions will not do this. Only organized efforts will. Meaning everyone is just as responsible for not doing this, whether they buy the product or not.

Again, if slavery is going on, whether you buy the product involved or not, we are all equally guilty for allowing it to continue. Buying the product is irrelevent.

Re: Estimate how many slaves work for you based on your possessions and lifestyle.

#27

Post by potatolicious »

zwieback wrote: post #26

Very cool website and a good message. Main takeaway for me: either "everyone" is a liar or only saintly people took the survey.

I'm slightly below average without lying - this may be a problem with demographics. I'm a bachelor with scarcely anything beyond the basics in the bathrooms, and a very limited wardrobe. Almost all of my slave score comes from electronics.

This would change dramatically if you're calculating for multiple people in a household, or you're just not a barebones bachelor like me.

Re: Estimate how many slaves work for you based on your possessions and lifestyle.

#28

Post by AznHisoka »

nightski wrote: post #25
yelsgib wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you lived next to a diamond mine, you probably wouldn't buy diamond rings. I say this because I assume you are a compassionate/empathetic person to some degree, and I think it would be very difficult for you to separate out your feelings towards the terrible conditions/bloodshed involved in diamond mining and the shining ring that you just bought from the smiling slave-driver. The only reason that you could ever b…

It's pretty obvious that if you stop drinking CC, no one else will stop because you did. Meaning the events are conditionally independent. In my opinion, rallying large groups of people is the only way to make a difference. So really day to day choices you make on what to purchase have no effect on the system. I would argue that the only real way to change is attempting to effect group think. Individual purchase deci…

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but my view is that I was not asked to be born under these circumstances (over population, unequality of wealth, unfairness, etc). I never was in charge of dictating the type of world I wanted to live in. Therefore, why do I have the burden to do something about unfairness in this world? It's like saying to a developer "Go fix this bug RIGHT NOW!", and then when he/she asks for commit permissions, you reply back "Sorry, you need to sign this form, and give it to HR, then send an email to the DBAs, and wait a couple of days.. but still FIX IT NOW!"

Re: Estimate how many slaves work for you based on your possessions and lifestyle.

#29

Post by TDL »

cbr wrote: post #4

They describe their calculations: http://slaveryfootprint.org/about/#methodology They appear to count "N slaves working for you" if they predict N slaves were involved in the production of anything you have, not the number you keep continuously employed.

Another flaw in the methodology is that if I own no slaves, I have no slaves working for me.

Re: Estimate how many slaves work for you based on your possessions and lifestyle.

#30

Post by TDL »

yelsgib wrote: post #16
rokhayakebe wrote: post #14

If we are buying products which were made, or have parts that were made, by people in terrible conditions, what would happen if we stopped buying those? Does it mean the people who use to make $1/day are now making $0/day which will lead to a harder life filled with crimes? Note: This is an honest question. I also come from a place where skilled-workers make around $4 or $5/day. I think in many cases, $4/day is bette…

The people who make $1/day stop making $1/day. There is crisis. The crisis is caused by the cessation of a domination-based dependence relationship. The crisis could cause government collapse and mass-death. Out of the ashes will arise a (necessarily) more self-sufficient community. The fact is that globalization fixes countries as "slave countries." It's very easy to control people by giving them a locally beneficia…

A necessary condition for this scenario is that these people are being compelled to work for a $1/day.

If the options that exists are $1/day vs. privation vs. criminality vs. selling sex services, most people would choose a $1/day.

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