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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#601

Post by antioppressor »

CaptainNegative wrote: post #271
jarbus wrote: post #190

Why is the EU able to pass pro-consumer laws, but America unable to? Are big tech companies just unable to properly bribe the European Union like they do the American Government?

EU-based *aaS companies are practically nonexistent relative to US-based ones, so there's basically nothing holding them back from passing bills like this one gerrymandered to (i) companies with a global market cap above €75B, (ii) with 45 million European users, (iii) and an included web browser or messaging app. If they had companies satisfying those criteria, they'd certainly see more pushback. I personally like t…

Retaliate for what? There are zero rules and regulations in the US concerning these big behemoths. Those senate hearings are just laughingstock kinda theatricals.Just watch back the Microsoft Antitrust Depositions with Bill Gates.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#602

Post by antioppressor »

impalallama wrote: post #129

I'm very interested to see how this will affect closed gaming platforms like Nintendo, Sony, etc. Personally I'd love to be able to install an itch.io app on my switch and play some silly indies.

What do you think why Sony started to bring their used to be exclusive games to PC?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#603

Post by ThatPlayer »

bun_at_work wrote: post #334
JohnGB wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an ironic take given that these rules are there to take away monopoly power and have an actual open market.

How does Apple have a monopoly? The only thing that comes close is the App Store, which requires you buy an iPhone, which is not the most common mobile device. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe Further, other phone companies start from nothing and become quite successful in market place, and some fail, but consider OnePlus - they decided to make a "Flagship Killer" and are still delivering high…

Monopoly power is not the same as a literal monopoly. The FTC has a pretty good definition of it:

https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#604

Post by Apocryphon »

nemothekid wrote: post #431
bloppe wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To your first point: I find it telling that your main concern with reducing Apple's monopoly power is that it would elevate Facebook's monopoly power. How about we design regulations that mitigate against monopoly power in all its forms? Then there would be viable alternatives to Facebook and all of the sudden their business model based on hostile tracking becomes completely unsustainable because there's meaningful c…

> Then there would be viable alternatives to Facebook and all of the sudden their business model based on hostile tracking becomes completely unsustainable because there's meaningful competition that actually respects their users. This assumes my problem is with Facebook and Facebook alone. My problem is with ad-tech and more generally all other developers. I know Apple exersts influence beyond their customers and I'…

> My problem is with ad-tech and more generally all other developers.

Perhaps without Apple taking the 30% cut, and with the possibility of new app stores that are designed differently from the current App Store, the economics of mobile apps might shift so that there could be third party app stores that cater to users willing to pay for apps up front.

Rather than the current situation that is a race to the bottom as the majority apps are free or freemium, supported either by that intrusive adtech or by in-app purchases that range from subscriptions to outright scams or loot boxes.

> users lose and any new technology is used to fingerprint people on the web

User data tracking is also of great concern to regulators. I doubt they will sit still while third party app stores collect user data. Those app stores will still be subject to regulation, even if it's not Apple's own oversight.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#606

Post by rch »

cteiosanu wrote: post #549
rch wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is being a gatekeeper a function of overall size, or market share in a given sector? I may have missed the definition in the article, but my cynical take is that it seems geared towards getting companies that enjoyed dominance in the 90s back into the game now.

Check the infographic[1]. Gatekeepers are digital platforms : • with over 45 mil active users • more than €7.5 billion turnover for the past 3 years [1] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/digital-mark...

I see now, thanks!

I'm getting more optimistic as I look into the details. Open messaging could be interesting, for instance.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#607

Post by SiempreViernes »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #411
tirpen wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these rules apply only to companies above a certain size, both in number of users and revenue. Those get classified as "digital gatekeepers" and they are the companies that have to comply with extra requirements. So no, this will not affect startups and harm innovation, it will just force the monopolistic behemoths to play nice and cease actively harming innovation.

It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Further it seems more like a moat to keep anyone else from getting as big as these "digital gatekeepers" are as suddenly when you get to a certain size you have an enormous expense. If these companies really are that large that they have to get special laws for them i…

> It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors.

Uh, are you secretly longing for filing the paperwork required to obtain Title V Operating Permit for a major air emission source, or is there some other reason you oppose the idea that different things will have to follow different laws?

Personally I think most people will agree that a company with 150000 employees (Google) is not the same thing as one with 750 (tinder).

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#608

Post by lstodd »

runako wrote: post #516
Vespasian wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple: it's impossible because of the encryption Regulator: what are the others using? Apple: something very similar but slightly different Regulator: and it's impossible to develop an open standard thet allows p2p encryption to be maintained? Apple: Yes obviously in this specific field of technology that's not possible at all. (Not the) Regulator: Sounds legit

This facile response ignores that Apple Messages is a system, not just an encryption algorithm. Of particular concern is key management: who manages the keys that allow the messages to be decrypted? Currently, it's Apple. What this Act says is that Apple Messages must interop with any other messaging system. If you spin up a VM running an iMessage-compatible server on Hetzner, Apple Messages must interop with you and…

That only means that the Apple Messages model is outdated and a replacement is hereby being required.

If Apple prefers lock-in over innovation, it's their problem, not the users'.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#609

Post by nuker »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

> Install any software

Scams proliferate, praying on elderly and young. Widespread tracking of your location, browsing history. Same with other points, narrow, selfish thinking.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#610

Post by slaymaker1907 »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

I think six months is a pretty unreasonable time frame for Apple. While the security concerns around this sort of thing are often overblown, Apple will need to rework their security model for the iPhone. If there is an API surface between the OS and the App Store, they may need to rework it since it's not been designed with third party stores in mind.
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