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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#551

Post by sfe22 »

Tryk wrote: post #539
sfe22 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Okay, so would it not follow that all regulation is monopolistic by this definition? Again I am curious how you believe this will "kill competition" by regulating for points 1-3 in my previous post.

Monopolistic regulation kills competition by increasing the cost of entering that market, while established players have the capital and necessary connections for workarounds.

For example imagine a new company trying to build an iPhone with minimal app store, well guess what, now they have to also build support for third party store, developer tools, etc… which increases their cost to launch. Apple on the other hand will have all this taken care of. It will have multiple people making sure regulators are happy (or rich).

While I later found that this will not target small companies, so in this aspect this regulation will likely have minimal impact.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#552

Post by ptomato »

igorkraw wrote: post #144
hunglee2 wrote: post #121

all pretty sound, aside from 'interoperability on instant messenger', which would be incompatible with privacy / security obligations from the providers. Wonder how hard US govt will bat for the US tech, leverage is there vs the EU post Putin invasion of Ukraine

BS, XMPP federation has been around for decades now. Google messenger used to speak it before the removed it , maybe Facebook as well.

yup. with google messenger it was used almost exclusively to spam google messenger users, and that's what'll happen with this as well.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#553

Post by smileybarry »

drampelt wrote: post #434
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Use existing hardware and software features without competitive prejudice. E.g. NFC What this will mean for me as an iPhone user: instead of using Apple Pay which is seamlessly integrated in my phone, watch and desktop OS, I will instead have to use my bank's terrible HTML-based 'app' to perform contactless payments, making it 100 times less convenient. This probably will make me switch back to using my bank card.…

I have an Android phone and have every single one of my credit and debit cards from 7 different banks in Google Pay. Don't need to use the bank app for any of them. EDIT: to be clear, currently on Android any app can handle NFC payments, not just Google Pay. Banks could easily force people to user their apps, but that's not happening.

Counterpoint: here in Israel we had (only) the bank apps on Android for 2+ years, and they were a combination of "okay" and "awful". My bank's app required to unlock your phone (with biometric auth), an app-specific pin code, and had a 30-second window. It then didn't work 30% of the time and required turning NFC off and on again to work. It took them over a year to change to "just unlock your phone".

Then Apple Pay launched here, contactless adoption on iOS became triple of Android's (despite Android having more than double the phones), and a few months later Google Pay launched in response with their better implementation. I'm guessing it was a combined "in response to Apple" from Google and "maybe this will increase adoption" from banks.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#554

Post by dane-pgp »

bun_at_work wrote: post #334
JohnGB wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an ironic take given that these rules are there to take away monopoly power and have an actual open market.

How does Apple have a monopoly? The only thing that comes close is the App Store, which requires you buy an iPhone, which is not the most common mobile device. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe Further, other phone companies start from nothing and become quite successful in market place, and some fail, but consider OnePlus - they decided to make a "Flagship Killer" and are still delivering high…

> How does Apple have a monopoly?

They have monopoly power and control over app developers' access to iPhone users.

If supermarkets offered a loyalty card program that made it physically impossible for you to shop at another supermarket, then this would be a monopoly/anti-trust issue too, even if no supermarket had a majority share of the market.

The usual response of Apple fans is "You can just buy a second phone", but asking app developers to give away free Android phones to their iPhone-using potential customers is not really a viable competitive strategy.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#555

Post by znpy »

sfe22 wrote: post #320
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

> monopolistic regulations like this

If anything, this is anti-monopolistic.

With sideloading, unlocked nfc and alternative stores and payment providers this will likely kickstart whole new markets (eg: a better app store for the iphone).

This is just great.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#556

Post by danjoredd »

fariszr wrote: post #415
a4a4a4a4 wrote: post #194

I'm not sure how I feel about this. My gut instinct is that opening these things can lead to a ton of malware and fake app stores, which will lead to a not-insignificant number of people being victimized. I'm also annoyed that the EU produces effectively 0 innovative tech, and subsequently has very suppressed tech salaries, but is so ready to regulate the American companies that make the world go 'round.

> I'm also annoyed that the EU produces effectively 0 innovative tech, and subsequently has very suppressed tech salaries, but is so ready to regulate the American companies that make the world go 'round Because its almost impossible to compete? These companies have so many resources, its impossible for any local competitor to compete. Amazon can just crash the prices till the competition dies, Google can just not al…

Sounds like pure copium to me.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#557

Post by giantrobot »

Apocryphon wrote: post #487
giantrobot wrote: post #363

This should have been named the Law of Unintended Consequences. In the most abstract, opening up mobile and messaging platforms is a Good Thing. Unfortunately it is going to cause a mass of real world problems and will have significant negative consequences. Requiring alternate App Stores will mean Facebook, Epic (Tencent), TikTok, and Scams R Us will all set up their own app stores. Their apps will slowly move to th…

I really think that setting up an alternative app store is more difficult than one can imagine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31991394 Out of the ones you've listed, I think Epic has the highest likelihood to do it, not just because they were the only one to take substantiative legal action to try to force it, but because theirs is a platform that might actually offer compelling content that would give users a…

Facebook took a huge revenue hit when Apple started enforcing permissions on app spying. I see them definitely creating a "Metaverse" App Store filled with their spyware. They have the leverage to push users to their store between Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp. Don't forget Facebook used to be a huge games platform for Flash games.

Running an App Store is hard but companies like Facebook and ByteDance already run the sort of infrastructure needed. Since Apple can no longer enforce exclusivity with their store, Facebook et al have the incentive to create stores accessed from both Android and iOS. Before this law they'd only be able to target the lower revenue Android users while having to live with Apple's restrictions. Now they can make one Facebook (or ByteDance) store able to target higher revenue iOS users where they distribute their first party apps in addition to third party ones. You can be sure they would have no restrictions on data collection. The wording of the DMA also seems like it would be difficult for Apple to stymie their data collection at the OS level.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#558

Post by smileybarry »

fyzix wrote: post #427
nemothekid wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. For some reason every Linux user assumes everyone is as smart as they are and anyone who doesn't take the time to learn whatever esoteric config file to manage their DE is a child that can't tell left from right. Somehow the decade of directed scams and proliferation of malware and spyware isn't a problem and it's the developers "right" to be able to turn…

Facebook isn't forcing Android users to install their apps from an alt store so that point is moot

If you're browsing the web version of Facebook, the banner to install their app links directly to an APK, not Google Play.

"Better with the app" shows in a bunch of places alongside a "accidentally broken" suggestion bar whose "X" doesn't work.

Messenger refuses to work on the web and requires you to download the app, unless you pretend to be a desktop browser.

Source: I refused to install Facebook's app while on Android and had to use the intentionally slowed-down and crashy web version. (on a flagship processor)

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#559

Post by sfe22 »

znpy wrote: post #555
sfe22 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

> monopolistic regulations like this If anything, this is anti-monopolistic. With sideloading, unlocked nfc and alternative stores and payment providers this will likely kickstart whole new markets (eg: a better app store for the iphone). This is just great.

See my comment here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32170049

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#560

Post by Volker_W »

bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

Do you think Apps should not be Sandboxed on iOS?
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