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In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

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Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#101

Post by hunglee2 »

in Hong Kong - especially in the New Territories - the mini-van is basically the main mode of semi-public transport.

The '小巴' basically operate fixed routes, seats about 13, pick up and move per stop, but don't stop on empty stops unless called to do so via open outcry from a passenger who wants to get off at that spot.

Somewhere in between taxi (entirely private, no fixed route) and bus (entirely public, fixed route). They're great, and generally missing from transportation systems in the Western world

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#102

Post by sjf »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #98
whatever1 wrote: post #37

Public transit that is not subway on rails suck big time. I have wasted thousands of hours waiting for the bus that either came early, or is late, under 100 degrees of sun and under snowstorms. Add to that the I have walked thousands of miles because the bus stops do not align with my destinations. Since I got a car and live in the suburbs, I pay much lower housing costs, I start exactly 20’ before my punch in time,…

> a 2mile commute can last easily 45 minutes. at 10mph average, which includes stops, I doubt a 2 mile commute could take 45 minutes. It should take... 12 minutes. Let's call it 15. > I have walked thousands of miles because the bus stops do not align with my destinations. It's probably good for your health. Seriously, now: I get your point. The > under 100 degrees of sun and under snowstorms is the worst part, I gue…

You don't take the bus, it probably is 45mins. You are not including time walking to/from the bus stop at both ends. Time spent waiting for the bus- this is probably the biggest one. Time for people getting on and off at bus stops and paying- in some places, for example in London, there are stops every couple of hundred meters on the route, it is kind of ridiculous.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#103

Post by treis »

woodruffw wrote: post #89
chrismartin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a city with a "modern" streetcar. I even rode it to work for a few months. Two reasons why it's not great. 1. It shares busy streets with cars yet has zero ability to maneuver in traffic. If just one car is parked a few inches beyond the edge of the parking lane, the entire streetcar route is blocked. 2. The tracks trap bicycle tires and cause many bicycle crashes. This happened to colleague of mine, fortun…

Both of these are serious issues, and point to an underlying problem: cities have been re-planned around their streetcar networks, not with them in mind. Improperly planned, streetcars are just less mobile buses. There are known solutions to both of these: give streetcars unilateral right of way, isolate them from car traffic at intersections and stops, and give cyclists their own separated lanes. Depending on the ci…

Streetcars are always less mobile buses. You can do everything you suggest for buses and get the same benefits plus everything that being a bus offers you.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#104

Post by [deleted] »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #94
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #78

Yessss!!! There is no best one-size-for-all solution for transportation, we need lots of different methods to select the best methods for the situation. Scooters, [e-]bikes, vans, trolleys, buses, subways, trains, funiculars. (And more that have yet to be invented; personally I hope for rentable e-assist pedi-cabs to take cargo like groceries home in cities without the need for a 2-ton+ vehicle) I think this van serv…

This is America trying to fix problems that are caused by their poor-to-nonexistent urban planning, FWIW. I've lived in several countries in Europe, and you have to be far out into the countryside before it gets difficult to go grocery shopping with a bike and bike trailer, or even just a backpack and walking.

[deleted]

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#105

Post by treis »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #77
HonestOp001 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the future, getting the large inefficient buses off the system is the goal. His thesis that the vehicles meander and no technology will fix that is refutable in that technology can identify opportunities to minimize inefficiencies. A good algorithm will create efficient routes for the flexible transit. Finally, the author is a public transit consultant. He is not going to be good for a reference when he is on o…

Flexibility and efficiency are often at odds. Fixed route service is FAR more efficient than any sort of micro transit service can ever be, unless we are looking at areas with very low demand. The most efficient algorithm is always going to be having people gather in one spot to be picked up and dropped off rather than driving all over to different points.

>Fixed route service is FAR more efficient than any sort of micro transit service can ever be

Theoretically fixed route service is far more efficient. Practically, it's not because it takes a lot of demand to run at high frequency and high utilization. As an example, I live in Atlanta and it costs the system $9 per bus ride these days. And given the nature of the system and the city it usually takes people more than one bus ride to get where they need to go.

Lyft/Uber usually comes out to be slightly to much cheaper excepting long cross-metro rides. The problem is that I don't get my $15.50 subsidy.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#106

Post by patch_collector »

I recall Hong Kong's solution, at least when I was there a decade ago. You had the Metro with fixed rails for core routes, then double-decker buses that went to additional areas in large loops. Next were the green minibuses that had small loops, branching off from the other services. After that were red minibuses, which had specific pickup locations, then would drop you off anywhere nearby. All of which could be paid for using the same Octopus card.

It was great.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#107

Post by kwhitefoot »

ahoy wrote: post #83
whatever1 wrote: post #37

Public transit that is not subway on rails suck big time. I have wasted thousands of hours waiting for the bus that either came early, or is late, under 100 degrees of sun and under snowstorms. Add to that the I have walked thousands of miles because the bus stops do not align with my destinations. Since I got a car and live in the suburbs, I pay much lower housing costs, I start exactly 20’ before my punch in time,…

Public bus transit and private car transit are inherently in conflict. You basically can't run them on the same streets and expect the bus to not suck. You could, of course, run the bus in a dedicated, separate right-of-way to solve that problem. But like you said, just build rail at that point

> You basically can't run them on the same streets and expect the bus to not suck.

That's just nonsense or specific to some areas. I spent a couple of hours on the Stagecoach buses today travelling from Paignton to Kinsgwear and then Dartmouth to Totnes and back to Paignton. The same journey by car would probably have been more expensive because of the cost of parking the car in busy tourist towns and it wouldn't have been much quicker. Some of the roads are barely wide enough for two cars to pass each other yet the buses still keep to their timetable.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#108

Post by moviewise »

moviewise wrote: post #2

Via-shuttle is available in the SF Bay Area: https://www.cupertino.org/our-city/departments/public-works/...

And the on-demand shuttle service is expanding to nearby towns: https://www.sanjoseinside.com/news/via-cupertino-shuttle-ser...

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#109

Post by woodruffw »

treis wrote: post #103
woodruffw wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of these are serious issues, and point to an underlying problem: cities have been re-planned around their streetcar networks, not with them in mind. Improperly planned, streetcars are just less mobile buses. There are known solutions to both of these: give streetcars unilateral right of way, isolate them from car traffic at intersections and stops, and give cyclists their own separated lanes. Depending on the ci…

Streetcars are always less mobile buses. You can do everything you suggest for buses and get the same benefits plus everything that being a bus offers you.

The advantages to streetcars aren't limited to what I suggest. They also include noise and air quality advantages (hooking up to municipal power sources instead of carrying their own engines), human advantages (they tend to be more comfortable than buses, both because of road quality and size), capacity, and so forth.

There are many, many situations where buses (ideally, electrified ones) are the right choice. But there are also many situations where streetcars are the right choice, which is why many cities run both (or one over the other).

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#110

Post by mcspiff »

woodruffw wrote: post #91
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds pretty good, if you overlook people smoking meth or crack, publicly urinating and defecating on the bus, violence, etc. Not unique to buses for sure. Thanks, but I'll keep my "polite society" vehicle and properly planned highways in Orange County.

I have never once seen any of these on a public bus, either in my city or others. What you're describing sounds like a civic problem where you live, not some kind of intrinsic quality of public transportation.

I’ve lived in 3 Canadian cities and 1 major US city. Regularly used public transit in all of them. Used transit around both Canada and the US as a tourist, plus a few locations in Europe, Australia.

For any location where I was using it for more than a week I’ve encountered something unpleasant. Various degrees and extremes, but in my experience (not OP) it certainly seems to be intrinsic to public transit.

Some of these could arguably be a net good (it’s much better that the drunk is on the bus rather than driving himself!) and I continue to prefer transit over driving myself when available, but I would never deny that it’s not always an enjoyable experience

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