The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers • Hacker News Board

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers

#21

Post by satyrnein » Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 12:01 PM UTC

alexanderisora wrote: post #19

janosdebugs wrote: post #14

Step 4: 2 years down the line the code touched by dozens of freelancers becomes so brittle that you can't launch a feature without breaking two others. Greenfield projects are easy, long-term maintenance is hard. Edit: during my career, I had numerous projects needing cleanups after developers only interested in shipping the next feature and rotating frequently. If the long term maintenance isn't your problem, the in…

This is the biggest pain of the modern software development process. Freelancers or outsource companies are not interested in your business, they are interested in charging you for hours spent. This approach is counter productive and is against common sense. Especially if you are a solo maker, not a $$$$ backed startup. I believe to change this, we need to invent a completely new way of how software is built. I recen…

This sounds like Salesforce plugins or something. Or at a difference scale, just using Salesforce/SaaS products in general where possible.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers

#22

Post by alexanderisora » Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 12:34 PM UTC

satyrnein wrote: post #21

alexanderisora wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the biggest pain of the modern software development process. Freelancers or outsource companies are not interested in your business, they are interested in charging you for hours spent. This approach is counter productive and is against common sense. Especially if you are a solo maker, not a $$$$ backed startup. I believe to change this, we need to invent a completely new way of how software is built. I recen…

This sounds like Salesforce plugins or something. Or at a difference scale, just using Salesforce/SaaS products in general where possible.

Yes, this approach has been implemented by many companies. But those plugins' use scope is limited to a company tool. What that folk did is expanded this approach to the 'any app' level.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers

#23

Post by strimp099 » Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 12:45 PM UTC

jdasdf wrote: post #13

strimp099 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were more than somewhat effective. That said, they absolutely helped me frame the marketing effort. You want to DM me on Twitter? I'll send it to you @jasonstrimpel or email jason.strimpel [at] gmail [dot] com.

> They were more than somewhat effective. That said, they absolutely helped me frame the marketing effort. Do you mind sharing the name of the agency?

Just Juniper Media out of London.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers

#24

Post by strimp099 » Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 12:47 PM UTC

chaoz_ wrote: post #11

jollybean wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. What were the top items in each phase, I'm curious to know the details. Also, did you find that those things were specifically effective, i.e. did 'Twitter' bring you material attention? Sorry, don't mean to bother, just that I've worked with agencies as well and found them only somewhat effective.

+1 for the Q. Are there any questions I could ask from an agency to understand if they know what they're doing? Many agencies offer their services with wide price range, but I heard very mixed reviews of all the price segments.

I created a set of slides which introduced the project and created a doc with my expectations. I posted a very detailed job spec on Upwork, shortlisted 20 companies, and interviewed 10.

I picked the one I did because they were most transparent with what they would actually deliver. For me it was about a pre-launch strategy, what to do at launch, and how to systematize/scale post launch.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers

#25

Post by strimp099 » Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 12:50 PM UTC

l5870uoo9y wrote: post #17

Can you shed some light on how much you spend on freelancers?

I did a short stint with a fractional CTO / front end type for US$1k per day. I had a backend developer from Vietnam for US200 / day. I'm currently working with a product designer for EUR50 / hour.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers

#26

Post by strimp099 » Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 12:53 PM UTC

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #10

How did you go about evaluating the non-technical freelancers? I have to hire for design and marketing and I'm having a lot of trouble evaluating talent. I can tell who's obviously bad but beyond that it's a bit of a toss. Also how much did it set you back, if I may ask? 2 weeks of a designer, we're talking 10 to 15k, right?

I looked for experience in my niche (trading/investing), got a few references, and saw some of their work.

I was never 100% comfortable going through Upwork etc because you never really know. But I spent a lot of time writing up the requirements and talking to people to get a feel.

For better or worse, in the end I went with the marketing agency that was the most transparent.

I met a top notch designer through someone I DMed on Twitter. (If you're not on Twitter talking to people - go there.) He's EUR50/hour.

If you go through an agency, then yea closer to 10k.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers

#27

Post by strimp099 » Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 12:54 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #15

How is everything about shipping? If you ship and you fail to find a market it's game over. Shipping is closer to the beginning of the journey.

I'm comfortable I had a market. What I had to do to get there is a story for another post :)

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers

#28

Post by strimp099 » Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 12:56 PM UTC

MaxPengwing wrote: post #12

Just curious what is the budget you had for this, and what did the freelancers cost? Was milestones part of the contract deliverables for payments?

This story was about getting the first iteration of my product launched (somewhere beyond MVP but still rough).

I had a fractional CTO / project manager / React dev + backend dev + devops + designer. All between 50% and 100% for 8 weeks. I also heavily participated in backend work.

Total cost came in a little over US20k.

I did not stipulate milestones and I was lucky because everything worked out (except documentation).

I definitely suggest stipulating milestones.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers

#29

Post by strimp099 » Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 12:58 PM UTC

is0tope wrote: post #18

This resonates with me also. I've gotten into a nasty habit of always trying to do everything myself. I recently launched a project for tracking crypto market data and suggesting trades. I went to Fiverr to see if I could get someone to design me a UI, and after going around one guy quoted me ~1.2k USD. I decided that I could do it myself, and proceeded to spend multiple evenings working on it. I did learn something…

It was a very sudden mind shift for me. All of the sudden one day I said f* it. If I want this thing to exist, I need to focus on shipping. Not building.

The next day I hired up the freelance team.

Some people just like to build. Others want to run a product.

Either is cool. Just don't get them mixed up.

Re: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Hiring Freelancers

#30

Post by strimp099 » Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 12:59 PM UTC

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #20

> Step 1: Hire a freelance developer yeah that's the point where most of you get stuck, because lot of Freelance developers are outright liars. Before you will find somebody who at least understand what you want from him, you already wasted 2 months of your time. This can follow into a guy who understand what you want from him, but has no clue what to do and creates horrid mess. Eventually you end up redoing everythi…

All very, very true.

Going through a trusted source is best.