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Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

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Re: Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

#21

Post by Twirrim »

pipeline_peak wrote: post #13
vord1080 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you got the idea that the core development team has been cut, Firefox development remains strong. For example, here's a 1,000+ line patch that just landed two days ago. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1779952

I shouldn’t of said cut, but they did layoff 250 members 2 years ago and among those were the Servo team. https://www.protocol.com/amp/mozilla-layoffs-2646950077

That's not the core dev team, at all. Servo was a research group, building an experimental browser engine, parts of which did end up transitioning across to Gecko.

Re: Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

#22

Post by Spivak »

handoflixue wrote: post #17
zarzavat wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bank. If a customer uses Firefox and loses money because of a Firefox bug or incompatibility, who do you think will be liable? The customer? No way. The bank is on the hook because it's their website that resulted in the loss. So the bank has to test in Firefox, they can't just put all their hope in web standards that may or may not represent reality. When Firefox falls to a certain marketshare it makes no sen…

"It makes no sense to appeal to 4% of the population" seems like a bizarre claim, especially since that 4% is likely to be programmers in the top 25% of income. I'm also not sure what error you're expecting? If browser bugs are a serious risk like this, you should surely be able to cite a few example lawsuits from the last year or two?

4% of desktop web traffic is Firefox is not at all the same thing as “4% of desktop users also don’t have access to or refuse to use a Chromium based browser and will switch banks because it”.

Re: Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

#23

Post by Nextgrid »

zarzavat wrote: post #15
the_biot wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox's marketshare is hardly the point here. As bob1029 said, there's no earthly reason why you wouldn't just build a standards-based site and have it work on any modern browser.

It's a bank. If a customer uses Firefox and loses money because of a Firefox bug or incompatibility, who do you think will be liable? The customer? No way. The bank is on the hook because it's their website that resulted in the loss. So the bank has to test in Firefox, they can't just put all their hope in web standards that may or may not represent reality. When Firefox falls to a certain marketshare it makes no sen…

I really can't think of how you can lose money because of a browser bug unless you put so much intentional complexity in what is essentially a CRUD app that a browser bug could trigger disastrous failure, in which case the fault is on the developer for overengineering rather than any browser bug.

Re: Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

#24

Post by walrus01 »

Anecdotally, if you use firefox on android to sign in to a wells fargo account you will get a shitload more captchas and extra verification steps to actually login than if you use chrome, or their officially published app.

This is not how the web was supposed to be.

Re: Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

#25

Post by ratsmack »

mikewave wrote: post #19
ratsmack wrote: post #3

My bank (B of A) started complaining about Debian's firefox-esr being too old and out of date, so I loaded the bleeding edge version just to access my bank account, but use the esr version for general browsing.

I for one am glad to run a version that Eric S. Raymond has officially blessed.

Hopefully you're joking... :-), if not, it means Extended Support Release.

(The first time I saw it, I thought the same)

Re: Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

#26

Post by Cameri »

dmart wrote: post #6

I wonder if people realize how low Firefox marketshare has fallen, or if people are stuck in a 2010s-era idea of what the web browser landscape is like. I also think the prevalence of Firefox among the (overall tiny) desktop Linux demographic tends to warp developer perspectives. It's under 4% - for all intents and purposes a dead browser. I certainly wouldn't devote any engineering hours towards supporting it.

Seems like you forgot what it was like when Internet Explorer was the dominating browser.

Re: Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

#27

Post by haswell »

Nextgrid wrote: post #23
zarzavat wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bank. If a customer uses Firefox and loses money because of a Firefox bug or incompatibility, who do you think will be liable? The customer? No way. The bank is on the hook because it's their website that resulted in the loss. So the bank has to test in Firefox, they can't just put all their hope in web standards that may or may not represent reality. When Firefox falls to a certain marketshare it makes no sen…

I really can't think of how you can lose money because of a browser bug unless you put so much intentional complexity in what is essentially a CRUD app that a browser bug could trigger disastrous failure, in which case the fault is on the developer for overengineering rather than any browser bug.

Yeah, this seems like a red herring at best.

I understand an argument against continuing to test, even though I find it insufficient, but liability doesn’t make sense here.

Re: Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

#28

Post by somat »

My bank(name and shame, yeah it's chase) does not work with openbsd. unless I change the user agent then it works just fine. sigh

Some days(usually after a few drinks) I set my user agent to a simple "firefox" and every time I do it is depressing how many things break.

Re: Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

#29

Post by [deleted] »

zarzavat wrote: post #15
the_biot wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox's marketshare is hardly the point here. As bob1029 said, there's no earthly reason why you wouldn't just build a standards-based site and have it work on any modern browser.

It's a bank. If a customer uses Firefox and loses money because of a Firefox bug or incompatibility, who do you think will be liable? The customer? No way. The bank is on the hook because it's their website that resulted in the loss. So the bank has to test in Firefox, they can't just put all their hope in web standards that may or may not represent reality. When Firefox falls to a certain marketshare it makes no sen…

[deleted]

Re: Just got this notice from my bank: No more Firefox

#30

Post by MrWiffles »

zarzavat wrote: post #15
the_biot wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox's marketshare is hardly the point here. As bob1029 said, there's no earthly reason why you wouldn't just build a standards-based site and have it work on any modern browser.

It's a bank. If a customer uses Firefox and loses money because of a Firefox bug or incompatibility, who do you think will be liable? The customer? No way. The bank is on the hook because it's their website that resulted in the loss. So the bank has to test in Firefox, they can't just put all their hope in web standards that may or may not represent reality. When Firefox falls to a certain marketshare it makes no sen…

> If a customer uses Firefox and loses money because of a Firefox bug or incompatibility, who do you think will be liable? The customer? No way. The bank is on the hook because it's their website that resulted in the loss.

> > So the bank has to test in Firefox, they can't just put all their hope in web standards that may or may not represent reality.

Thanks to the open nature of the web, i can modify the request/response, JS that executes, etc right in the browser. So for your argument to be valid, the bank would literally have to fully trust client side directives and do next to zero validation of the users input. Even banks aren’t that stupid…

And if you know of a bank doing that, please share! I’d love to print myself some free money!

Security issues somewhat withstanding here, but even that argument is bullshit because Chromium/Chrome has just as many bad security bugs as FF, sometimes even more and/or worse.

So no, this is bullshit. The reason they’re doing this is so they can reduce development costs while more likely than not engaging in surreptitious activity surveillance, given FF has some of the strongest protections against that crap that have ever existed. Coupled with recent-ish reports that credit bureaus want to let your browsing data impact your credit score, they’ve already got several big fish on the line willing to buy. And with little to no isolation for client side storage per domain in most of those browsers, i can see no other incentive for them to do this.

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