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U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

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Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#341

Post by xwdv »

everfree wrote: post #216
xwdv wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely those things can happen, and they should. For example, imagine if an airplane pilot or anyone in a position of being responsible for a mass number of lives has previously called into suicide hotlines. Would you feel secure knowing the pilot of your plane once exhibited suicidal tendencies? I doubt it. Any bits of data we can collect to make accurate assessments should be collected.

> Would you feel secure knowing the pilot of your plane once exhibited suicidal tendencies? I doubt it. I really don't care, to be honest. As long as the problem has been fixed through major changes to lifestyle and/or medication, plus enough time has passed to ensure that the person is stable, the fact that they once called a hotline is irrelevant. I might not be as vehemently against the collection of this data if…

You seem strangely empathetic. Perhaps you have made calls to these hotlines or wrestled with complex emotions as well.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#342

Post by Lammy »

swores wrote: post #320
Lammy wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> state authorized suicide IMO there's no way this would ever become any sort of common occurrence, because the state would never willingly give up its human capital on that scale. "Again, when a man in violation of the law harms another (otherwise than in retaliation) voluntarily, he acts unjustly, and a voluntary agent is one who knows both the person he is affecting by his action and the instrument he is using; an…

While I of course don't think this should be the deciding factor, and I wouldn't write the following paragraph outside the context of your comment... Isn't it possible that letting suicidal people kill themselves might actually save more in "wasted" economic output trying to save people who are perhaps beyond saving (therapists could spend more time helping non-suicidal people which could make them more productive, o…

> Or maybe you think that motivation already is secretly driving propaganda or political lobbying or similar?

I can think of many possibilities for people to passively and non-economically serve the will of the state in an always-online world, but I don't think it's appropriate to openly speculate about that sort of thing since it is Unknowable. Just knowing it's possible is enough for me :)

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#343

Post by anticensor »

peterlk wrote: post #9
piker wrote: post #3

Don't understand this idea. In UK there's a dozen or so magic numbers with one for each special crisis that you're supposed to memorize. Some are straightforward: 111 (non emergency health), 999 (emergency), but then there's 101, 112, 105? and you're supposed to dial them in certain circumstances. It seems this takes some triage load off, but it also seems like the path from "what's your emergency?" "this is not an e…

I thought you all just had one number for everything! 0118 999 881 999 119 7253 https://youtu.be/ab8GtuPdrUQ

Missing country code, you are instead supposed to call: +44 118 999 881 999 119 725 3.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#344

Post by everfree »

xwdv wrote: post #341
everfree wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you feel secure knowing the pilot of your plane once exhibited suicidal tendencies? I doubt it. I really don't care, to be honest. As long as the problem has been fixed through major changes to lifestyle and/or medication, plus enough time has passed to ensure that the person is stable, the fact that they once called a hotline is irrelevant. I might not be as vehemently against the collection of this data if…

You seem strangely empathetic. Perhaps you have made calls to these hotlines or wrestled with complex emotions as well.

This is the first time anyone has called it "strange" that I am an empathetic person. Perhaps many people have not gone through (and recovered from) enough hardship to properly develop their sense of empathy like I have.

Better bar me from becoming a pilot, quick.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#345

Post by R0b0t1 »

zahma wrote: post #176
cmg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have experience in this field: I ran technology for one of the only hotlines in the US that didn't engage in non-consensual active rescue [0] [1]. I've written about this a little on this site in the past, when Crisis Text Line was caught sharing data. Many, if not most, of these places give the operator full access to your phone number and whatever geolocation data they can get based on that. They also have polici…

> Many, if not most, of these places give the operator full access to your phone number and whatever geolocation data they can get based on that. They also have policies where the operator is allowed/encouraged to call emergency services on you without your ongoing consent, or even without telling you. In my experience talking with others who have been affected by those kinds of policies, this can lead to police brea…

Unfortunately various studies have shown that people who are involuntarily committed are more likely to commit suicide. This is not a benign association: it is clear that psychiatric holds and the ensuing care at the very least are likely pointless and as no ontervention is free are likely actively harmful.

Assholes like yourself are why I need to bring a gun to my doctor visits. I might need to murder the doctor in self defense. Way easier to get out of a hold if you do that first.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#346

Post by coding123 »

tomtheelder wrote: post #132
wyager wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attributable to rapidly increasing police expenditures. The "baseline" level of crime in the counterfactual scenario where police expenditure had stayed constant is almost certainly increasing.

I don't think anything about what you just said can be assumed to be true. I am not convinced that increased police expenditure has a significant impact on violent crime, and even if it does I don't think it's reasonable at all to assume that violent crime rates would have increased without them. I suspect that decreasing violent crime rates are caused by a constellation of forces (increased education, aging populati…

By far more than any other metric crime is driven by things not being affordable (including and especially housing)

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#347

Post by myself248 »

least wrote: post #138
myself248 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. A friend related a similar story to me. Having some counselors stop by or something, might be cool, but the police are basically the opposite of that, at least today, at least in most places. I can't imagine a worse sequence of events to kick off.

By most accounts, the sequence of committing suicide has much worse outcomes for the individual than forceful intervention by police.

You say that like there's a difference.

The first person I know who committed suicide, did so after being arrested for something that shouldn't have even been illegal. But the ordeal into which he was plunged by law enforcement was too much to handle. He was very stressed out by the shame of being in the newspaper and such, but nobody realized the degree until it was too late.

The second, too. Different details but overall similar scenario; he wrote of the feeling of being ground up by this massive machine.

Want to make someone feel hopeless, start by sending police in place of counselors.

I only know two people who've committed suicide. So that's not a great track record for police making things better.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#348

Post by zahma »

R0b0t1 wrote: post #345
zahma wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many, if not most, of these places give the operator full access to your phone number and whatever geolocation data they can get based on that. They also have policies where the operator is allowed/encouraged to call emergency services on you without your ongoing consent, or even without telling you. In my experience talking with others who have been affected by those kinds of policies, this can lead to police brea…

Unfortunately various studies have shown that people who are involuntarily committed are more likely to commit suicide. This is not a benign association: it is clear that psychiatric holds and the ensuing care at the very least are likely pointless and as no ontervention is free are likely actively harmful. Assholes like yourself are why I need to bring a gun to my doctor visits. I might need to murder the doctor in…

I’m the asshole here for trying to help people who might harm themselves? I don’t think you have a clue what’s happening on services like this. We’re not advocating that people get locked up against their will.

You’re out of line.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#349

Post by vorpalhex »

coding123 wrote: post #346
tomtheelder wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anything about what you just said can be assumed to be true. I am not convinced that increased police expenditure has a significant impact on violent crime, and even if it does I don't think it's reasonable at all to assume that violent crime rates would have increased without them. I suspect that decreasing violent crime rates are caused by a constellation of forces (increased education, aging populati…

By far more than any other metric crime is driven by things not being affordable (including and especially housing)

Well that's just not true. Crime has more correlation with density than pricing but that is correlation, not causation.

Many cheap broke areas are also high crime areas.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#350

Post by edub »

dntrkv wrote: post #281
autoexec wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Practically speaking, none of these things will happen. Practically speaking, these kinds of things are happening every day. I would agree that it might be better to take the help and live accepting the lifelong consequences of your actions in seeking that help. A life where you lose your children, lose job offers, or have your deepest troubles exposed to the world might easily still be a life worth living. The rea…

How will you lose your children? How will you lose job offers? Children aren’t even taken away where there is known abuse going on. Lose job offers? How would a company even know you were seeking help?

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2022/04/abolish-ch...
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