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Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

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Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#131
post #68

I highly recommend doing what I have done most of my career. Get a job at smaller to medium sized non-tech company. Every company, in any industry, has computers. They need you. You don't have to work with a bunch of tech or finance people. You can get a job working with chill people in some other industry with a better culture. When it comes time to negotiate, negotiate HARD. And not just for money, but especially t…

> Get a job at smaller to medium sized non-tech company. Every company, in any industry, has computers. They need you.

I personally had the worst experience at such jobs. Small/medium sized non-tech companies don't value technology and don't understand its importance. If it works, you're invisible and just a cost center, if it doesn't you're to blame.

For work/life balance I've found big tech corps the best (not FAANG). I haven't worked on Saturday/Sunday in the last 10 years. I've seen people negotiate reduced hours/days successfully.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#132
post #96
post #68

I highly recommend doing what I have done most of my career. Get a job at smaller to medium sized non-tech company. Every company, in any industry, has computers. They need you. You don't have to work with a bunch of tech or finance people. You can get a job working with chill people in some other industry with a better culture. When it comes time to negotiate, negotiate HARD. And not just for money, but especially t…

I wouldn't worry about no code software. They usually can only get you a quarter of the way. Then the requests start coming in and then the client wants their custom workflow in the app and no code can't do it. It usually doesn't take much for the client to realize they need something more custom. I work in the GIS industry and its a great mix of always learning something new but not only working with tech people.

So basically no-code can be used as a foot in the door strategy? Like, hello I offer you some training for this great no-code tool and help you build exactly what you want, then I stick around to round the unavoidable rough edges?

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#133

What you are feeling is valid. Do something about it!! I know a guy who built his own open source server and now makes a living out of providing support. Admittedly that case is a longshot. But there are other things you can do. Let's brainstorm for a bit and think about it. It can be solved. I also hate this industry. There is a path for us, we just have to find it.

I really hope we both make it out, man. I really do.

We'll be free one day.

Keep building.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#135
I've been in the industry 20+ years and have had my share of ups and downs. Some advice for what it's worth. Focus on what you enjoy doing and avoid what stresses you out. The industry is wide enough that you can likely find a job doing what you like in an environment you like. For me that meant being a little less ambitious in terms of income but working in a laid back environment with people I really enjoy and doing back end development. I will never do UI again and I only work on languages I find enjoyable - mainly Java & Python.

I've been a coder, manager, director, CTO and one thing I have learned the hard way is "You are responsible for your own happiness".

Yes this industry is full of fakes and scoundrels and clueless biz people but don't let them steal the joy you have in creating software

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#136
simply the industry is full of shit from both personnel to the orgs themselves.

most orgs unless you work for the local city municipality think they're doing something revolutionary. when they're not.

the personnel is smart but blind. which ends needless work to prove either promotion/ cleverness . I probably think we're the only industry where we need to prove we need to look busy. Plenty of professions have idle time and only crank it up when needed - a firefighter is not fighting fires 24/7. nurses well before shortages were not looking after patients every minute.

yet us software engineers need to be cranking code / being in meetings all day. only non productive MBA's share that trait i.e need to prove busyness.

most companies lack adequate leadership i.e level headed people who can say "NO"- this is not necessary

us software engineers are interested in reinventing the wheel for no particular reason as if we work in research labs. hell people doing pure research into performance e.g Formula 1 - have a time cap into that sort of stuff. they're not running wind tunnel tests 24/7

for us personnel add the shitty tools like NPM. These days if you try go against the grain you're looked at as if you're an idiot. if your web app is not an SPA then you're a relic of the past. if you don't run K8's then you must be doing hobby projects etc. if you're not on the cloud you're legacy, as if shit matters if it delivered from boxes rented from Bezos or your own boxes.

companies thinking a 3% raise is enough when inflation is 7%+ and wonder why people leave.

companies having long interview processes which don't make sense at all

lack of education and training at most companies that's not 20% time or attending conferences. - before proper companies like IBM / HP etc used to pay for people to go to school and have in house tutors. yet companies these days expect you to know everything

last and not least => we can't make software that works whether it's Apple / Google / Microsoft / Small Co. it's all shit, it's full of bugs

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at a place where if you don't work overtime you are considered garbage. Everyone will beat up on you any chance they can because they are bitter. Meanwhile, not everyone has that luxury. Single parents, caregivers, etc. Just because you write code doesn't mean you live a kushy life...

Plus I've observed that people who consistently do a lot of overtime for prolonged periods of time rarely seem stop and think, and are fairly consistently some of the worst programmers I've had to work with. They're not necessarily stupid or lacking in skill – often the opposite actually, they just never stop long enough for their brain to actually process things, so questions like "hey, is this actually a good idea?…

LOL. Correct. This guy who works weekends without even being asked to, is genuinely a genius in that area but he just churns out complete sh*t. Mindlessly building.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#138

Been in the software development industry for almost 19 years now. The last five years have been pretty much what you describe. Yes, I can certainly relate. I've been largely driven by passion, but passion is no longer here. And I'm bad at discipline, which should be my new driver now, I guess. :-)

I'm in the same boat. Part of the problem for me is that it seems we're solving the same problems year after year, but with a slightly different software stack each time. Or we've built a Rube Goldberg machine of SaaS tools that would of been a single script 10 years ago.

It has me thinking of a career change to a related field like UX or going back to school to become an architect or urban planner.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#139
post #132
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't worry about no code software. They usually can only get you a quarter of the way. Then the requests start coming in and then the client wants their custom workflow in the app and no code can't do it. It usually doesn't take much for the client to realize they need something more custom. I work in the GIS industry and its a great mix of always learning something new but not only working with tech people.

So basically no-code can be used as a foot in the door strategy? Like, hello I offer you some training for this great no-code tool and help you build exactly what you want, then I stick around to round the unavoidable rough edges?

The problem is if you started with no code, can you round the rough edges? One reason we use code instead of no code is so we can extend the product in any direction that is necessary, not just the few that were anticipated by a tool.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#140
post #43

For me it’s the insane hazing ritual of the tech interview process that makes me want to leave the industry. I’m going through it again now, and honestly am pretty miserable. It has a large negative impact on the rest of my life and my mental health. When I was younger it was manageable, but the fact you have to do this even mid or late career every few years is insane to me. Wish I had gone into literally any other…

Yes. I don’t even apply for jobs. Just freelance using personal contacts.
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