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Where is there more livestock than people?

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Re: Where is there more livestock than people?

#81

Post by dredmorbius »

danans wrote: post #75
burlesona wrote: post #12

I grew up in a small town and spent a lot of time driving through cows > people counties through college and young adulthood - every visit back to my parents meant seeing lots of cattle on the way. At grocery stores I would see packaging for “grass-fed beef” or “free-range” and honestly I thought it was like a joke that farmers were pulling on city people, like “gormet hand-picked potatoes” or “premium plastic” or so…

> Then I moved to California, and one day had occasion to drive from SF to LA. North of Bakersfield I encountered the most profound stink I’ve ever smelled while driving, and eventually I saw the source: industrial operations with enormous numbers of cattle in fenced pens shoulder to shoulder so they could hardly move. Those feedlots are all over the country, the largest being in Colorado, Texas and Kansas: https://r…

Dodge City, KS, is ... quite remarkable.

It can be smelled well over 10 miles away.

I've not had the pleasure of travelling near the Texas CAFOs.

Re: Where is there more livestock than people?

#82

Post by dredmorbius »

gus_massa wrote: post #3

It would be nice to repeat the maps using weight. The weight of a cow is like 700Kg (1500 pounds) and the weight of a chicken is like 3Kg (6 pounds). So a cow is like 250 chickens. (Can someone with CGI abilities make a gros image of a cow made of 250 chickens?)

Not a map, but trending of terrestrial vertebrate biomass from 10,000 BCE to (projected) 2050:

https://peakoilbarrel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Terrest...

I've seen another image which shows cubes indicating total biomass inclusive of plants and invertebrates. Humans aren't quite so prominant on that, though as a measure of all animal biomass, still a large fraction.

This ... is close though not quite what I had in mind:

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=o3xAu8m8XK4

And NB, that's not the xkcd "Land Mammals" one, though that's also impressive: https://xkcd.com/1338/

Re: Where is there more livestock than people?

#84

Post by citilife »

bombcar wrote: post #32
dzdt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in pastureland country, cattle typically spend winters packed together in feedlots and are fattened in feedlots on a largely corn-based diet before slaughter. Depending on who is doing the labelling, cattle which were pastured before this fattening process may still be sold as "grass-fed".

Sometimes the packed wintercows are fed grass (those big bales rolled up are quite heavy - and expensive).

> those big bales rolled up are quite heavy - and expensive

Depends what you mean by "expensive". You can get one typically for $15 - $50 / bale. Here's a website: https://allhay.com/

Prices are much higher due to the fertilizer and fuel prices. Around me It's going for $50-$55 for a 4x5ft bale (a few years ago it was $20 / bale).

That said, those can weigh quite a bit, a 4x5ft bale will be 800 - 1200 lbs depending on moisture content and field composition. A cow will eat 20-40lbs of food a hay, depending on weather (they eat less in severe cold or heat).

That equates to a single bale lasting one cow a approximately month or in reality, a heard of 30 cows needing about one bale a day.

Using today's price of $50/bale, that's $1.67/day per cow to feed (a couple years ago it was much lower, say $0.5 - $0.75).

Given it takes 2-3 years to maximize beef production AND assuming you only need feed half the year (grass fed cattle often graze), we're talking ~$750 to feed over the 2.5 year average (assuming 2.5 years @ 180 days).

In terms of meat, you're probably going to get somewhere around 450lbs of use-able meat. You have to pay a butchering fee on that as well. That's probably $700. You'll also have transportation, fees, etc (let's just say $200/head). Total you're looking at a cost of $3.67/lb of processed beef. You can then resell for $5-6/lb right now to a reseller. This is a net of around $675.

If you feed grain, you can effectively expect the same thing, but:

1. Grain fed will typically be cheaper per lb.

2. Grain will create a more tender meat (it's why people finish with grain)

3. Cows fed grain gain weight, so profit can be somewhat higher (often offset by organic nature of many grass fed cows)

4. Grain-fed tastes better to most people

Re: Where is there more livestock than people?

#85

Post by beepbeepcabbage »

tinus_hn wrote: post #30
Beldin wrote: post #21

In response to the question in the headline: the Netherlands, pretty much everywhere. Over 5x as many as people [1], even after substantial decline last year. Their droppings are causing us environmental problems, which is currently a hot(-button) topic. [1] https://longreads.cbs.nl/nederland-in-cijfers-2021/hoeveel-l...

Alternatively it’s a manufactured problem, designed to require the goal of halving the livestock.

Yes, global warming is a man-made problem and you should grow a vegetable or find something else to do besides dump nitrates into the water table.

Re: Where is there more livestock than people?

#86

Post by beepbeepcabbage »

formerkrogemp wrote: post #9
h2odragon wrote: post #2

I live beside one of the "more pigs than people" counties; pretty sure that the bulk of the pig count is one farm (with several contract barns). At least in theory, there's one person who can say those are his pigs . I'd be tempted to train them, arm them, declare the county the Free Porcine State.

> I'd be tempted to train them, arm them, declare the county the Free Porcine State. Why stop at pigs? Why not free all of the animals at the animal farm? Are some animals more equal than others? ;)

Pigs and chickens too fat to walk or unable to eat with their beaks sawed off would require care until the end of their lives etc...

And that's humans fault, not theirs.

You can't simply throw up your hands and walk away from a century of animal eugenics

Re: Where is there more livestock than people?

#87

Post by bpodgursky »

solardev wrote: post #44
officialjunk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't the corn based diet unique to the United States, since corn is a subsidized crop?

It depends... some parts of Canada use corn, others use barley ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_feeding#Country-specifi... ). In EU it's a mix: https://www.dairyherd.com/news/european-cows-eat-more-foreig... https://www.beefmagazine.com/americancowman/beef-and-busines... In general different countries will "finish" their cattle with different grains. Only a few places have the right conditions to have their bee…

I've heard stories of farmers dumping leftover Halloween candy for their dairy cattle during a hay shortage.

Not ideal, but I think cows are pretty flexible when it comes to cheap calories.

Edit: yea def happens https://money.cnn.com/2012/10/10/news/economy/farmers-cows-c...

Re: Where is there more livestock than people?

#88

Post by littlecosmic »

puffoflogic wrote: post #73
seanwilson wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least chickens are a superfood animal in terms of converting calories into food Maybe compared to beef but when chickens are being fed crops they're not efficient compared to eating crops directly. 72 billion chickens is still an insane number of extra lives to support. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_efficiency "In comparing the cultivation of animals versus plants, there is a clear difference in magni…

Quoted post unavailable.

We don’t have to eat those specific things… we grow a lot of edible items that is fed to them too and farmers make planting decisions based on knowing they will sell it for animal fodder.

Re: Where is there more livestock than people?

#89

Post by puffoflogic »

littlecosmic wrote: post #88
puffoflogic wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

We don’t have to eat those specific things… we grow a lot of edible items that is fed to them too and farmers make planting decisions based on knowing they will sell it for animal fodder.

So it is your claim that all or even a substantial portion of pastureland is suitable for growing human crops? Lol, okay. It also doesn't even touch the issue of byproducts like husks and some greens. Name a plant which humans eat all of, besides maybe cabbage and other cultivars of the same species.

Re: Where is there more livestock than people?

#90

Post by s0rce »

puppycodes wrote: post #27
jasonboyd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience on that drive from SF to LA. I remember a UPS truck driving by me and the man inside wearing a face mask (this was pre COVID). I thought it was the weirdest thing. A few miles later though and you hit stench. It's hard to do it justice in a comment. Saying it's the foulest thing I've ever smelled really fails to capture it.

Good ole Coalinga... That towns major exports include factory farming and prison... basically hell lol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalinga,_California

I recommend Buttonwillow, good gas prices and you can eat a decent pususa outside while its 110F.
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