We could have universal Covid vaccines soon • Hacker News Board

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#161

Post by josephcsible » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 3:55 AM UTC

jameshart wrote: post #149

xyzzy123 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not been able to find medical evidence that the vaccine has any benefits at all for under 5s. It's been theorised to reduce severe illness and death (and it's very plausible it might!) but afaict that's never actually been measured.

Vaccines are not only supposed to benefit the recipient. Vaccination is a public health program . If vaccinating under fives reduces the risk to preschool carers and enables us to maintain higher preschool capacity then that's a public benefit that has nothing. to do with whether it affects the individual outcomes of five year olds who contract covid.

This gives me Omelas vibes. Is it really a good idea to increase risk of harm (via side effects) in our youngest for "the greater good"?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#162

Post by josephcsible » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 3:55 AM UTC

sovnade wrote: post #128

robhunter wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The president of the United States literally said "You're not going to get Covid if you've had these vaccinations" - https://youtu.be/VArXfQU--LA?t=21 It's likely the vaccines reduced the spread of the virus temporarily, but it certainly wasn't very long-lasting. The efficacy waned quickly, even against the original strains/Alpha/Delta - take a look at case rates in Israel (first heavily vaccinated country) through m…

Remember Delta wasn't even around until late summer. Biden's speech was barely an exaggeration at the time when we were dealing with the original strain. Was it 100% effective at preventing all infection entirely? No. It was 100% effective in preventing severe symptoms, hospitalization, and death, and was 95% effective in preventing symptoms entirely. 95% reduction in infection and 100% reduction in death is close en…

> It was 100% effective in preventing severe symptoms, hospitalization, and death

Do you have a source for this? It sounds completely implausible.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#163

Post by josephcsible » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:00 AM UTC

sovnade wrote: post #143

yucky wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>sorry i'm rereading your post and I'm not even sure what your issue is with the current definition Really? So the definition the CDC used for years to describe vaccines had to be changed, since by their own definition the COVID vaccine wasn't actually a vaccine. And the best part is they didn't even announce & explain the change, they just stealthily modified it on their website. And you don't understand why so many…

Yes - in science, definitions change all the time. We redefined what a planet was and booted Pluto out of the group. Which part of the new definition do you disagree with as being a valid definition for a modern vaccine? And what difference does it make functionally? The covid vaccines were a product that gave you protection against a disease. Everyone knows that's what a vaccine is. I don't see why it matters what t…

> Which part of the new definition do you disagree with as being a valid definition for a modern vaccine?

Isn't the fundamental point of a vaccine to protect you from a disease? Because that's exactly the part of the definition they removed.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#164

Post by randomhodler84 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:00 AM UTC

TeeMassive wrote: post #157

randomhodler84 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, stop staying this foolishness. In dense cities like NY, I would say at least 20% of the city is infected right now. Workers. People on the street. The subway is disgusting, there is at least one infected person per carriage coughing over everyone and refusing to wear a mask. You walk around and hear that infected lung with light mucus cough. It’s everywhere. Unless we get proper proper sterilizing vaccines, the w…

> In dense cities like NY, I would say at least 20% of the city is infected right now. Workers. People on the street. The subway is disgusting, there is at least one infected person per carriage coughing over everyone and refusing to wear a mask. You walk around and hear that infected lung with light mucus cough. It’s everywhere. If you are to insult people's intelligence then don't use your own germophobic anecdotal…

I’d say virusaphobic. I have been sicker from others in the last year than in 2020 and earlier. I’ve lost a lot of life this past year.

So what are we going do? Big city life is going to be unbelievably poor unless we solve this problem.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#165

Post by MrMan » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:01 AM UTC

robhunter wrote: post #21

I'm not sure the public - at least in North America - has much of an appetite for any more Covid vaccines. In the US: - Only about 2% of kids under 5 have had a 1st dose since they were introduced nearly a month ago - Only 30% of the 5-11 year old population has had 2 doses - So much damage has been done to public trust - "You will not get Covid if you get the vaccine; the vaccine eliminates the spread of the disease…

this is complete bullshit - getting vaccinated isnt a matter of public trust, stop with this ridiculous propaganda to politicize medicine.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#166

Post by lamontcg » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:02 AM UTC

We can't vaccinate our way out of this virus. Even without the issues of compliance, eradication is likely impossible with a respiratory virus like this.

Even if you have a pan coronavirus nasal vaccine the NAbs will wane and people will get infected again.

It doesn't matter if we use more mRNAs than just spike for more targets or anything else. It'll mutate, NAbs will wane, people won't get vaccinated and the virus will persist.

People are looking for a silver bullet which will confer the naive ideal of "perfect immunity" against this virus which just doesn't exist. The vaccines we have though are great, particularly against severe disease and death. But it won't get much better than this.

The disease burden is currently high compared to common colds because the virus is still novel and our immune system responses aren't 100% fully formed and tested. Once everyone has been exposed to the antigen a half dozen times and the virus is forced to mutate off of its naive optimum then the disease burden will drop even further. Then we just have another human common cold coronavirus.

Nobody is freaking out over HCoV-NL63, HCoV-229E or HCoV-OC43.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#167

Post by sobriquet9 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:03 AM UTC

metadat wrote: post #98

ekianjo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW I got the third booster, because I didn't want to risk unnecessarily transmitting a disease to my family last Thanksgiving. The booster does not prevent transmissions. You have been lied to.

It reduced the odds, which was good enough.

I don't think any vaccine study had odds of transmission as one of the end points. How do you even design such a study?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#168

Post by throwaway234223 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:08 AM UTC

sovnade wrote: post #144

thrown_22 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It started to wane slightly after 2 months. It was still nearly 100% effective at that point. It was still highly effective at 6 months (85%+), which is when a booster would return it to full effectiveness.

I'm in agreement if you are ignoring delta [1].

[1]: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2113090

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#169

Post by spoils19 » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:09 AM UTC

joeman1000 wrote: post #73

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought nobody was forced to take the vaccine?

We are forced to in Australia. I was barred from taking exams this semester since I didn’t have the vaccine. Others lose their jobs. There is no freedom of choice there. It’s a gun wrapped in a blanket.

It's crazy how Australians have sold out their rights in an attempt at "unity", or whatever the political theme is these days. In the US, with the 2A, no one could force anybody to take dangerous chemicals.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#170

Post by josephcsible » Sun, Jul 17, 2022, 4:12 AM UTC

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #27

autokad wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope not, because I don't think we will be given a choice on whether we want to take it or not, and the last booster I had in December wrecked me. Within 20 minutes I was yawning non stop, one yawn after till the point I was gasping for air. eventually my whole body was in pain for about 3 days, my resting heart rate was over 100 (60-65 is normal for me) and my oxygen levels was down to 90. 6 weeks later I caught o…

I thought nobody was forced to take the vaccine?

Depends on your definition of "forced". I was never threatened with legal punishment if I didn't take it, but at Biden's request, my employer told me I'd be fired if I didn't, and a bunch of places I like going made me show them my vaccine card to be allowed in.