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U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

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Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#221

Post by staticman2 »

parineum wrote: post #208
pessimizer wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> policing is a shit job that isn’t going to attract the best and brightest. It's not that it's a shit job, it's that it's a job that requires you to commit reprehensible acts, so good people can't join in good conscience. If our laws, law enforcement methods and justice system weren't horrifying, cops would be better, no matter how shit the pay or demanding the expectations.

>it's a job that requires you to commit reprehensible acts It absolutely does not require that. > If our laws, law enforcement methods...weren't horrifying Give some examples and provide some practical solutions.

I believe throwing people in jail for getting high is a reprehensible act, especially when you consider what it does to their family members, so I believe being a police officer requires you to commit reprehensible acts. Your mileage may vary.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#222

Post by TexanFeller »

zahma wrote: post #215
TexanFeller wrote: post #80

I’ve heard people advise not to call such hotlines because their intervention is not limited to just talking to you. It’s said they often cal the police who stop you by force and often make your life even worse than it was.

I am a Crisis Text Line volunteer. So the short answer is yes we do call EMS when we have to. I posted this longer answer in a different parent on this thread, but I'll re-post it since it directly speaks to your question and sheds some light on the criteria we use to determine if someone might harm themselves. "...We are trained to risk assess each and every texter, irrespective of our intuition about their mental s…

Calling the authorities under _any_ circumstances where the person is not planning to harm anyone else is unacceptable. The way you talk seems to presume that all suicidal people are out of their mind and irrational and need to be protected from themselves, which allows you to rationalize neglecting respect for their bodily autonomy. My body, my choice. It’s a person’s goddamn right to make the choice whether it’s better for them to continue living or not. How can we call ourselves free persons if we’re not even in control of our own body?

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#223

Post by [deleted] »

cmg wrote: post #30
Waterluvian wrote: post #21

Policing is in such a horrible state in America that an emergency number that excludes police involvement seems increasingly necessary. I wonder if you can get paramedics through this route or if it just rings and you eventually get a counsellor.

I have experience in this field: I ran technology for one of the only hotlines in the US that didn't engage in non-consensual active rescue [0] [1]. I've written about this a little on this site in the past, when Crisis Text Line was caught sharing data. Many, if not most, of these places give the operator full access to your phone number and whatever geolocation data they can get based on that. They also have polici…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#224

Post by peter303 »

softwaredoug wrote: post #66
Waterluvian wrote: post #21

Policing is in such a horrible state in America that an emergency number that excludes police involvement seems increasingly necessary. I wonder if you can get paramedics through this route or if it just rings and you eventually get a counsellor.

Policing in the US is shit in part because other social services are under developed that the police have to double for everything. Frankly it’s crisis too because doing social services and policing is a shit job that isn’t going to attract the best and brightest. Add to that it’s a job for Iraq and Afghanistan vets probably suffering from their share of PTSD, and you get a pretty volatile combo

Denver 911 now sends out social services as first responder if judged non-life threatening. For example a common 911 call asksfora ride to health service.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#225

Post by alexashka »

fuckcensorship wrote: post #42

Suicide hotlines, on the surface, seem like a good thing. Having a phone number someone can call 24/7 to talk to someone who is trained in helping someone undergoing a mental health crisis seems like an effective way to reduce suicides and benefit mental health overall. However, I think they have the opposite effect in practice. I suffer from pretty severe depression. It runs in my family and it is something I've str…

Having a problem does not make you qualified on what steps would be effective in resolving it at large.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#226

Post by autoexec »

kanbara wrote: post #171
autoexec wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also wonder what the impacts of having "Placed calls to the suicide hotline" in your permanent record will be on people's lives if they do choose not to take it. With the state collecting that data, your phone company collecting that data, your cell phone OS collecting that data, random apps collecting that data, and who knows who is on the other end of that call and what they're doing with your data. Will you be t…

if you are suicidal or have mental health issues you absolutely should not be able to go out and buy a gun until a mental evaluation takes place.

Lots of people feel the way you do, and that kind of thinking is one reason why someone might hesitate to have that black mark on their record for the rest of their lives.

If we want people to get help we need to think very carefully about what getting help will cost them, because the higher that cost is the more people there will be who are unable or unwilling to afford it.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#227

Post by peter303 »

softwaredoug wrote: post #66
Waterluvian wrote: post #21

Policing is in such a horrible state in America that an emergency number that excludes police involvement seems increasingly necessary. I wonder if you can get paramedics through this route or if it just rings and you eventually get a counsellor.

Policing in the US is shit in part because other social services are under developed that the police have to double for everything. Frankly it’s crisis too because doing social services and policing is a shit job that isn’t going to attract the best and brightest. Add to that it’s a job for Iraq and Afghanistan vets probably suffering from their share of PTSD, and you get a pretty volatile combo

Even our libraries do social services now. Libraries have become street people congregation places, especially in bad weather. Ours (Denver) has security force of 30 to escort out misbehaving patrons. They also have a couple social workers that step in when helping a patron makes more sense than expulsion.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#228

Post by [deleted] »

cmg wrote: post #30
Waterluvian wrote: post #21

Policing is in such a horrible state in America that an emergency number that excludes police involvement seems increasingly necessary. I wonder if you can get paramedics through this route or if it just rings and you eventually get a counsellor.

I have experience in this field: I ran technology for one of the only hotlines in the US that didn't engage in non-consensual active rescue [0] [1]. I've written about this a little on this site in the past, when Crisis Text Line was caught sharing data. Many, if not most, of these places give the operator full access to your phone number and whatever geolocation data they can get based on that. They also have polici…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#229

Post by vkou »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #73
morelisp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last ambulance trip in the US was billed at $12000. With my (good!) insurance I still had to pay $500.

$500 for a specialized vehicle on demand 24/7 with somewhat trained workers who have to deal with undesirable work seems pretty good. Assuming that was under the deductible, so the ambulance provider did not get paid anything else, and $500 was the negotiated pricing for members of your insurance plan.

> somewhat trained workers

Those workers are paid ~minimum wage, and the amortized cost of the vehicle and its equipment is not $500/ride.

The reason they charge $500, $800, or $12,000 is because ambulance firms have monopoly licenses, because you're not going to haggle over the price when one arrives, and because they can charge you whatever the hell they want, and when the dust settles, some people might even pay it.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#230

Post by pigtailgirl »

missedthecue wrote: post #202
oops wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $40 in Ontario sounds even better tho right? Just as the billed imaginary $12k figure that only exists to make “$500 seem pretty good” sounds absurd.

I wonder what the Ontarian government pays. Are Ontario ambulance companies that much more efficient? Surely there are heavy subsidies in play.

-- The government decides how much the healthcare industry is allowed to charge - there is a schedule set down by the government - they won't pay more than it - health care providers are allowed to bill the government $240 per for a basic ride - A005 is the fee code for a general consult - it's set at $77 - that's why most clinics will only do 15 minute appointments - unfortunately -- most doctors are earning about $150/hr - the good ones who are smart go to the states because they can earn considerably more --
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