I’ve heard people advise not to call such hotlines because their intervention is not limited to just talking to you. It’s said they often cal the police who stop you by force and often make your life even worse than it was.
I also wonder what the impacts of having "Placed calls to the suicide hotline" in your permanent record will be on people's lives if they do choose not to take it. With the state collecting that data, your phone company collecting that data, your cell phone OS collecting that data, random apps collecting that data, and who knows who is on the other end of that call and what they're doing with your data. Will you be t…
U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday
171–180 of 354 posts
Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday
#172For those who might ever contemplate this, maybe you'd like to hear a bit from me. I've been both depressed life-long and have probably spent more time in such contemplation than virtually anyone else here. (I'm pretty happy now, so no need to worry.) One of the worst things about this is the feeling that you can't talk to anyone about it, as the moment you do, you start having to take care of _them_ emotionally, at…
Not really
Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have experience in this field: I ran technology for one of the only hotlines in the US that didn't engage in non-consensual active rescue [0] [1]. I've written about this a little on this site in the past, when Crisis Text Line was caught sharing data. Many, if not most, of these places give the operator full access to your phone number and whatever geolocation data they can get based on that. They also have polici…
> There's also a relatively common experience I've heard where people who aren't actively suicidal call these lines, and the operator (I won't say counselor) is completely dismissive: "if you're not going to hurt yourself, what do you want me to do?" That would get you dismissed from any reasonably-run suicide hotline program ASAP. I have a friend who volunteers for a suicide hotline program here in the US. He says i…
Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday
#174For those who might ever contemplate this, maybe you'd like to hear a bit from me. I've been both depressed life-long and have probably spent more time in such contemplation than virtually anyone else here. (I'm pretty happy now, so no need to worry.) One of the worst things about this is the feeling that you can't talk to anyone about it, as the moment you do, you start having to take care of _them_ emotionally, at…
> If you're 35, your life is more than half done anyway. Not really
Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your articles source for that 80k figure is literally a guess by a criminologist who gives the range "50k to 80k" based on literally no data. The only data they are using is PG county MD which has one of the highest murder rates in the country. In 2021 there were ~1,000 police shootings. 85% of shot suspects were armed with a deadly weapon. That's in a nation with a population of 334,000,000 people.
This is either an intentional lie or a typo. There were 1000 police killings , not 1000 police shootings. edit: and I'm even accidentally being deceptive. There were over 1000 people shot dead by police. There were more people killed by police.
There are 1,136 total killed by police in 2021. 1,055 of them were shot.
There is a rough estimate that there were about 800 non-deadly police shootings, but that's a rough guess without much data.
Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday
#176Policing is in such a horrible state in America that an emergency number that excludes police involvement seems increasingly necessary. I wonder if you can get paramedics through this route or if it just rings and you eventually get a counsellor.
I have experience in this field: I ran technology for one of the only hotlines in the US that didn't engage in non-consensual active rescue [0] [1]. I've written about this a little on this site in the past, when Crisis Text Line was caught sharing data. Many, if not most, of these places give the operator full access to your phone number and whatever geolocation data they can get based on that. They also have polici…
Hi, CTL volunteer here. I have some gripes with a few of your assertions.
It's true that CTL was caught sharing data. They have retracted that policy, and it remains unclear to me how much of the data was being shared to which level of granularity. Since then, data can be manually deleted after a conversation is concluded. I have seen this happen, and I welcome you to try again if you would like to test the system. That is welcomed.
Each counselor is required to treat each texter with empathy and the gravity that a mental health crisis requires. I do not know of anyone on the platform who would disparage a texter because his/her/their crisis isn't significant enough. If you text CTL, it is for a reason, and we want to help you through that moment no matter your background.
Another important distinction is that we are trained to risk assess each and every texter, irrespective of our intuition about their mental state. That means I treat someone testing the system like I would someone who has been flagged as an imminent suicide risk.
Supervisors monitor this evolution of the conversation closely.
The assessment is important because ultimately the decision to call emergency services comes after that rigorous assessment of the person's suicidal ideation, followed by their plan and access to means, as well as their timeline. If all those criteria are met, I contact my supervisor, and then we work on separation from means. If those criteria are not met, we continue the conversation accordingly.
I have personally walked numerous people back from the edge simply by talking to them and hearing them out; often times, texters deemed imminent risks are capable of staying safe that night after we have come up with a safety plan for them together. Calling EMS is truly a last resort and not an attempt to cast off responsibility.
In the cases when we do call emergency services, it is after we have exhausted all other options. It should be noted that access to geolocation is strictly limited to these supervisors, and in all likelihood is limited to a texter's phone number alone. It's not like they have a backdoor into AT&T, and the supervisor must make a call to emergency services directly. From what I can tell, very little information is given back to CTL. On occasion, I can see a timeline that EMS was dispatched but rarely do I ever learn about the outcome.
The success of the platform is that we can work with people to find them their own solutions. CTL was not a viable intermediary for calling 911.
All in all, I recommend other readers to treat the post above with a grain of salt. Please be aware that platforms such as CTL are frequently volunteer-staffed, and, while we all do receive 20 hours of mandatory training, we aren't psychologists and we are not allowed to act in a medical capacity in the slightest. Each counselor is expected to work within a strict purview with clear objectives. Lots of well-intentioned people are there for whoever needs support. As far as volunteering goes, this is some of the most emotionally-involved I've ever had to do, and it pains me to read reviews of CTL that paint it is a data profiteering lab of pseudo-psychologists and dismissive blowhards.
Lastly, should data privacy be a cornerstone to these services? Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. But I am glad that this service exists, and we should not miss the forest for the trees. Many of our colleagues, friends, relatives, and countrywomen are suffering right now more than ever. We should not profit on their misery, but we have an opportunity to connect with them and change their lives. To my mind, that is worth every byte of data.
Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday
#177For those who might ever contemplate this, maybe you'd like to hear a bit from me. I've been both depressed life-long and have probably spent more time in such contemplation than virtually anyone else here. (I'm pretty happy now, so no need to worry.) One of the worst things about this is the feeling that you can't talk to anyone about it, as the moment you do, you start having to take care of _them_ emotionally, at…
> If you're 35, your life is more than half done anyway. Not really
Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday
#178Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even in areas where they still exist as separate numbers, they are pretty much always handled by the same calltakers.
I wonder if emergency calls jump past non-emergency calls in the queue. If so, that seems like a reasonable setup, and it would be better to call the correct number if possible. I suppose they could even allow an incoming emergency call to interrupt a non-emergency conversation (which would be put on hold) so that emergency calls never have to wait for a non-emergency conversation to finish.
911 calls in my major metro relatively frequently ring unanswered
Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your view of 911 is incorrect. You should attend a safety briefing from your responders (or if in a smaller region, call their office number). To loosely rephrase: "911 is if you need assistance now. Non-emergency is for the paperwork the next day."
There is no global rule about when 911 vs a non-emergency number is correct. I've lived in a city where 911 is the only way to reach police dispatch, and police dispatch is the only way to get a police report taken, even if it's just for insurance reasons the day after a fire or something. I learned this by calling the city's non-emergency line, and they told me to call 911. What's the non-emergency line for then? St…