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China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

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Re: China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

#71
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, just steal/copy GitHub and offer a local version with censorship, and ban the uncensored version.

I'm not sure I'd use the word "steal" with open source projects.

It’s about stealing the platform for a locally controlled version and banning the western equivalent.

Re: China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

#72
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It keeps order, it keeps the proles from getting uppity, and it's not much in the business of wealth redistribution (unlike it's liberal democracy counterparts on the other side of the world). Likewise, business as a whole in the US (and elsewhere) has no issue supporting the more authoritarian and repressive of the two political parties. They prefer it, in fact, because of what it does for them in limiting work…

> Likewise, business as a whole in the US (and elsewhere) has no issue supporting the more authoritarian and repressive of the two political parties. This is potentially the start of a boring partisan flame war. Let's not do that. The Republican and Democratic parties both have some platforms that strike outsiders as authoritarian and repressive. But debating them on HN doesn't work well IME.

I deliberately didn't name names (because in this context, it doesn't matter which is more authoritarian than the other, the statement works regardless of which side of that question you take.) My point is that business interests have no issues with authoritarianism, so long as it doesn't get in their way.

If you're waiting for the S&P500 to optimize for freedom and democracy, and justice, and reasonably-priced love, you're going to be in for a very, very long wait. It actively optimizes for the comfort of its executives and shareholder value first and second, and for the rest of society not at all.

Re: China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the fact that this is a pyramid scheme, it sounds pretty similar to how it works in the U.S. when building a new house.

Three years ago I built a house to sell (I was general contractor) on a city lot my family owned. Before a single shovel of dirt was turned over, we had to pay around seventy thousand dollars for plan review, power connection, water, sewer and gas. This really opened my eyes as to how much mitigation costs have risen over the years. I had built a house in the same area in 1989 and the initial costs were one tenth of…

I briefly was looking at getting some cheap land in Tennessee get utilities and a trailer to live on to save money.

Was Shocked at connection cost for everything

Re: China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

#74

The linked story kind of buries the context info: > Nomura said the refusal to pay mortgages stems from the widespread practice in China of selling homes before they’re built. Funds from presales are kept in escrow accounts to use for construction. But confidence that projects will be completed has weakened as developers’ cash woes intensified. > “Inappropriate usage of presale proceeds and the lack of adequate super…

And the linked story demanding open sourcing data is itself is behind a paywall. :D

Re: China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

#75

I know there are enormous profits to be made in China, but I wonder if American investors ever think to themselves ... by investing in this place I am strengthening a regime that ultimately is the enemy of my values.

As we have seen in America, big companies love fascists, because corps stand to monopolize and make tons of money.

Re: China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>get it paid back in the NEXT 30 YEARS Why emphasize that? 30 year mortgages are common in the US. At current rates of 5.5%, the total paid in interest will be bigger than the original loan. Of course, most US mortgages are taken out on housing units that actually exist.

~96% of us humans don't live in America, most of us don't have 30 year mortgages.

I'm pretty sure large portions of Latin America, Europe, ex-USSR and perhaps India/South East Asia have 30 year mortgages.

Re: China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the fact that this is a pyramid scheme, it sounds pretty similar to how it works in the U.S. when building a new house.

Three years ago I built a house to sell (I was general contractor) on a city lot my family owned. Before a single shovel of dirt was turned over, we had to pay around seventy thousand dollars for plan review, power connection, water, sewer and gas. This really opened my eyes as to how much mitigation costs have risen over the years. I had built a house in the same area in 1989 and the initial costs were one tenth of…

Seems a punitive tax on the entrepreneurial middle class. Such fixed costs might be insignificant for a palatial home. At the other end, large-scale developers know all about negotiating discounts and otherwise offloading costs.

Re: China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer above has been deleted, but this answer is even better. Replace US with China. But to understand it, you need to be familiar of modern Chinese history. https://www.zhihu.com/question/439676867/answer/2559528806 1. The United States has not been fascist until recently, but has been a fascist state since its founding. However, the US has not always been so fascist since its founding, and there was a period o…

>Externally, the US has been eager to strengthen its control over Canada, Mexico and Cuba, the 'backyard' of the US This is so true. China has either directly invaded or has bad relations with every one of its neighbours. Even the communist ones. Even those seperated by sea. Only reason why this bullying is tolearted is because they are rich now

It looks to me that China has decent relations with Russia, Mongolia, and even central asian Kazakhstan/Kirgisia/Tajikistan (of course there are some ethnic and economical tensions dragging this back, not to mention the issue of Uighurs who are related). China also has good relations with Pakistan.

Re: China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the boycotts are rational, because even the Chinese government thinks that the developers are overextended and may fail. They seem to be taking the most careful, benign option.

Chinese government should offer hard guarantees that all properties would eventually be completed, and at the same time that bad lenders may lose theirs. In Russia it's quite common occurrence that a very late project by a failed developer is eventually completed and the lenders get their apartments at last, after regional government intervention. In China it should be even simpler as the money never leave the escrow…

Why should they?

Re: China mortgage boycott data erased by censors as crisis spreads

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go along with the law? People who boycott mortgages get their properties confiscated by court eventually, and if any developments suffer issues government should aid developers to ensure any paid customers get their property done.

But the boycotts are rational, because even the Chinese government thinks that the developers are overextended and may fail. They seem to be taking the most careful, benign option.

boycotting a mortgage on a secured loan with 40% down is a political statement, not economically rational. The numbers are probably minuscule and the “boycott erase story” is itself mostly political.
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