Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs

#41

Post by ez77 » Tue, Nov 08, 2011, 6:03 PM UTC

trevor99 wrote: post #14

dporan wrote: post #9

Steve Jobs played a minor role in Apple’s early success with the Apple II I disagree. Here's what Isaacson writes (p. 73): If it had not been for Jobs, [Wozniak] might still be handing out schematics of his boards for free at the back of Homebrew meetings. It was Jobs who had turned his ingenious designs into a budding business, just as he had with the Blue Box . . . . To make the Apple II successful required more th…

I noted that Jobs's hustling was important. His product vision, design aesthetic, and RDF were not, which is where most founders go wrong. Not sure you read the book carefully--many investors laughed in Jobs's face not because it was a bad idea, but because he had BO and they couldn't stand him. Also--Steve was lucky to be Wozniak's best friend, whom most talented engineers came to Apple because of. Mike Scott (the C…

What's BO?

Re: Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs

#42

Post by lindvall » Tue, Nov 08, 2011, 6:13 PM UTC

ez77 wrote: post #41

trevor99 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noted that Jobs's hustling was important. His product vision, design aesthetic, and RDF were not, which is where most founders go wrong. Not sure you read the book carefully--many investors laughed in Jobs's face not because it was a bad idea, but because he had BO and they couldn't stand him. Also--Steve was lucky to be Wozniak's best friend, whom most talented engineers came to Apple because of. Mike Scott (the C…

What's BO?

He smelled.

Re: Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs

#43

Post by ssharp » Tue, Nov 08, 2011, 6:13 PM UTC

trevor99 wrote: post #14

dporan wrote: post #9

Steve Jobs played a minor role in Apple’s early success with the Apple II I disagree. Here's what Isaacson writes (p. 73): If it had not been for Jobs, [Wozniak] might still be handing out schematics of his boards for free at the back of Homebrew meetings. It was Jobs who had turned his ingenious designs into a budding business, just as he had with the Blue Box . . . . To make the Apple II successful required more th…

I noted that Jobs's hustling was important. His product vision, design aesthetic, and RDF were not, which is where most founders go wrong. Not sure you read the book carefully--many investors laughed in Jobs's face not because it was a bad idea, but because he had BO and they couldn't stand him. Also--Steve was lucky to be Wozniak's best friend, whom most talented engineers came to Apple because of. Mike Scott (the C…

You can't create the Apple potion without Jobs or Wozniak. By all accounts in the book, Woz would have just given his designs away. It was Jobs who realized the market potential of Wozniak's designs.

But founders shouldn't be emulating anyone. They should be doing what they're best at doing. And Apple's founders did this. Woz was best at engineering and Jobs was best at building a company. Woz was very skeptical of Apple being able to become a company. Without Jobs' early vision, the company never would have taken off. Remember from the book that Woz was doing Apple as a moonlighting gig and did not leave his job at HP for quite some time into Apple's development.

As for Steve being "lucky" to be Wozniak's friend, Wozniak was just as "lucky" to be Steve's friend. Without Steve, Woz would have probably been an engineer his whole life, working for companies like HP. Instead, he got to become a multi-millionaire and retire at a very young age, become a legend in computing history, and pursue his passions without the constraints of a job.

Re: Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs

#44

Post by personlurking » Tue, Nov 08, 2011, 6:14 PM UTC

ez77 wrote: post #41

trevor99 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noted that Jobs's hustling was important. His product vision, design aesthetic, and RDF were not, which is where most founders go wrong. Not sure you read the book carefully--many investors laughed in Jobs's face not because it was a bad idea, but because he had BO and they couldn't stand him. Also--Steve was lucky to be Wozniak's best friend, whom most talented engineers came to Apple because of. Mike Scott (the C…

What's BO?

body odor

Re: Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs

#45

Post by trevor99 » Tue, Nov 08, 2011, 6:15 PM UTC

ryandvm wrote: post #37

This shit is beyond absurd. How can anybody write an article with a straight face suggesting that you should emulate any of these people who were notable chiefly because they emulated no one? Can we get special flagging functionality to deal with this personality cult bullshit?

Wake up and look around at how many founders are trying to emulate Jobs. This article is about looking at the facts--mainly that Steve was not a great founder.

Re: Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs

#46

Post by lindvall » Tue, Nov 08, 2011, 6:19 PM UTC

trevor99 wrote: post #31

rmason wrote: post #29

Take Jobs, Wozniak or Markula out of the picture and Apple fails. You needed a hustler/product guy, a brilliant engineer and a great business mind for success. Jobs legend was created because he built upon his skills. He enhanced his ability to spot and aquire great talent and learned (the hard way) how to become a great businessman.

True, but the least important in the mix was Jobs.

Based on what?

Building really cool technology that you decide to give a way sounds a lot like how many startups have failed.

You've attributed arbitrary value to peoples worth when you have absolutely no way to know if you are correct.

Re: Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs

#47

Post by jwn » Tue, Nov 08, 2011, 6:19 PM UTC

ez77 wrote: post #41

trevor99 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noted that Jobs's hustling was important. His product vision, design aesthetic, and RDF were not, which is where most founders go wrong. Not sure you read the book carefully--many investors laughed in Jobs's face not because it was a bad idea, but because he had BO and they couldn't stand him. Also--Steve was lucky to be Wozniak's best friend, whom most talented engineers came to Apple because of. Mike Scott (the C…

What's BO?

In the first half of the biography, it's mentioned numerous times that due to his fruitarian diet, Jobs believed that he rarely needed to bathe.

Re: Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs

#48

Post by trevor99 » Tue, Nov 08, 2011, 6:20 PM UTC

comedian wrote: post #33

trevor99 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article is just trying to expel the misconceptions around Jobs and say that brilliant engineering is more important than design & reality distortion field in a startup.

Woz was the engineering genius. Jobs was the visionary entrepreneur. They both needed each other.

He was not a visionary entrepreneur, that's the whole point. His vision led him to create product flops for 20 years. Markkula on the other hand got it correct with the Apple II from having the right industry knowledge.

Re: Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs

#49

Post by captainaj » Tue, Nov 08, 2011, 6:20 PM UTC

ryandvm wrote: post #37

This shit is beyond absurd. How can anybody write an article with a straight face suggesting that you should emulate any of these people who were notable chiefly because they emulated no one? Can we get special flagging functionality to deal with this personality cult bullshit?

second that

Re: Why Founders Should Emulate Wozniak, Not Jobs

#50

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 08, 2011, 6:20 PM UTC

trevor99 wrote: post #26

bradleyland wrote: post #19

I cannot understand how you could read this biography and arrive at the conclusion that any one person should be "emulated". What I took away was that all components of Apple's success were mutually inclusive. It's unlikely that it could have happened any other way. You can pick a thousand points along the line wherein the events might have not come together as they did, and you do not end up with the Apple that exis…

Article is just trying to expel the misconceptions around Jobs and say that brilliant engineering is more important than design & reality distortion field in a startup.

[deleted]