Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

coindesk.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 339 posts

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#231

Post by tsimionescu »

trixie_ wrote: post #228
Nursie wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency does not seem to fall into the category of "assets resistant to manipulation". In fact it seems to be very, very prone to manipulation by all sorts of parties.

It's pretty simple, all the Bitcoin 'manipulation' you see is simply buying/selling open market coins. Not selling massive quantities of newly minted coins. The government on the other and has minted and spent trillions of dollars in stimulus which has resulted in permanent inflation. The point is, Bitcoin will bounce back, the dollar will not.

There is plenty of other manipulation, like constructing ponzi schemes that require BTC/ETH to get into, or "stable coins" backed by other crypto, or selling "art" like NFTs.

These all sooner or later crash down, and bring the value of ETH and BTC down with them. Already billions of dollars have left the crypto space, and are unlikely to ever come back.

It of course isn't impossible that BTC will bounce back, but there is also no guarantee of it. Perhaps Gamestop will bounce back as well, or the Venezuelan Dollar.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#232

Post by null0pointer »

dannyw wrote: post #203
dcolkitt wrote: post #117

One thing to note is that while Celsius, a centralized and opaque yield platform, collapsed, not a single major DeFi protocol failed during a period of enormous stress. MakerDAO, Aave, Uniswap, Curve, Lido and Compound all had perfect 24/7 uptime with zero losses due to unrecoverable debt. This pretty clearly strengthens the case for pure and transparent DeFi, where anybody can inspect the health of the protocol or t…

Incorrect. Bancor, the first DeFi protocol and ICO, is in deficit (liabilities exceed assets). They offered 100% impermanent loss protection. Now, liquidity providers like me who deposited ETH are down 50%. It's only about a $18 million hole, but the Switzerland "non-profit" Bancor Foundation that has raised hundreds of thousands of ETH in ICO is nowhere to be seen.

Ethereum was the first ICO.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#233

Post by vkou »

yokem55 wrote: post #164
vkou wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Celsius seems to have been either a ponzi scheme, or a group of morons doing dumb speculative investment on margin, or (most likely) both, but I'd like to point out that MakerDAO is down 70% YTD, Aave is down 60%, Uniswap is down 60%, etc, etc. You'd have been better off just buying bitcoin on margin (Since BTC is only down 53% YTD). The point of this post is that you can't make something out of nothing. None of thes…

> but I'd like to point out that MakerDAO is down 70% YTD, Aave is down 60%, Uniswap is down 60%, etc, etc. The health of the protocols is only very marginally connected to the value of the tokens that govern them. Even if the $UNI token went to zero, the liquidity pools and swap contracts would still work fine. $MKR and $AAVE are a little more complicated because if the governance tokens got too cheap, the protocols…

That's wonderful. But what are all these loans used for? Arbitrage? Trading other coins around? It's turtles all the way down - there's nothing that generates value at the bottom.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#234

Post by JumpCrisscross »

impulser_ wrote: post #92
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are just a loaning you their money while they wait for your money to settle in their bank account Nope. No loans. You can demand physical settlement on stocks, end of day. Naked shorters (MMs) have to do this from time to time. It’s now more expensive because: idiots. Which suits Wall Street just fine. > why does PayPal, Square, and other FinTech companies make billions a year offer you to instant deposit mone…

You wouldn't be wiring your hotel. You would be wiring your hotel's bank.

> You wouldn't be wiring your hotel. You would be wiring your hotel's bank.

Sure. Yes. Fine. A worthless difference. But yet. I won’t wire my hotel’s bank.

I will wire my lawyer or accountant. (Sorry, their banks.) Wires which process instantly and for free. But virtually irreversibly, and so at higher risk for me. (Also, AmEx gives me goodies. Same reason I don’t swipe my debit card.)

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#235

Post by CaptainZapp »

mccorrinall wrote: post #146
sergiotapia wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can also flip my burgers with my flipflop. I was asking for a useful usecase.

Paying bills isn’t a useful usecase?

Not for the extremely limited subset of bills, which you can pay.

Overall, no it isn't.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#236

Post by Nursie »

trixie_ wrote: post #228
Nursie wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency does not seem to fall into the category of "assets resistant to manipulation". In fact it seems to be very, very prone to manipulation by all sorts of parties.

It's pretty simple, all the Bitcoin 'manipulation' you see is simply buying/selling open market coins. Not selling massive quantities of newly minted coins. The government on the other and has minted and spent trillions of dollars in stimulus which has resulted in permanent inflation. The point is, Bitcoin will bounce back, the dollar will not.

> It's pretty simple, all the Bitcoin 'manipulation' you see is simply buying/selling open market coins.

LOL. And every tether is backed by a US Dollar in a bank account, right? Nobody could possibly (say) fake buy pressure to put the prices up?

> The point is, Bitcoin will bounce back, the dollar will not.

What point? For what purpose will bitcoin "bounce back" that the dollar will not?

As the dollar is not an investment, but a means of exchange, it doesn't seem particularly important whether the dollar 'bounces back', because nobody is trying to sell you dollars to stick under the mattress as a get-rich-quick scheme.

What a weird comment.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#237

Post by [deleted] »

TrainedMonkey wrote: post #116
ok_dad wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an analysis recently that ETH accounts for something like 97 percent of the mining market’s value.

That does not sound right, bitcoin fraction alone should be more than 3%. Maybe GPU mining market value as bitcoin is dominated by ASICs.

[deleted]

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#238

Post by [deleted] »

TrainedMonkey wrote: post #116
ok_dad wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an analysis recently that ETH accounts for something like 97 percent of the mining market’s value.

That does not sound right, bitcoin fraction alone should be more than 3%. Maybe GPU mining market value as bitcoin is dominated by ASICs.

[deleted]

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#240

Post by secretsatan »

loeg wrote: post #217
thematrixturtle wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Checked your electricity bill lately? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-07/electric-...

> Checked your electricity bill lately? My rates are 11-13 cents per kWh, the same as they’ve been for years. Our power is mostly hydro, with smaller amounts coming from nuclear and wind. So no, that pithy question isn't particularly useful.

Yeah, and that energy is infinite, so if we move all the miners to where you are that price will def stay the same
Post reply on HN