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Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

coindesk.com

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Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#211

Post by trixie_ »

SamBam wrote: post #182
trixie_ wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For every seller there is a buyer, and many are buying stocks and crypto right now at low prices. And why wouldn't they? The fed is manipulating the market with interest rates, just as they did during Corona. History proves in the long run holding dollars is good for short term stability, but it's a long term loser.

"For every seller there is a buyer" is the kind of meaningless statement one can make any time there is a major downturn or collapse in a market. 1929-1932, the Dow drops 90%. "For every seller there is a buyer, and many are buying stocks [...] right now at low prices." Some people eventually did great, so it's all wonderful, so long as you ignore the staggering pain of the Great Depression.

Calm down the market isn’t crashing.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#212

Post by Nursie »

trixie_ wrote: post #209
Nursie wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not. Cryptocurrency has explicitly and repeatedly been touted as un or anti-correlated to the wider financial ecosystem, fiat currencies and the stock market, and has been loudly, noisily and never-endingly sold as a great hedge against these things, absent any evidence. The evidence is in now, and those theories are a bust.

There are many theories about everything. Sorry the ones you bought into didn’t work out. Most of us aren’t surprised that when the dollar is manipulated that other asset classes’ dollar values change as well.

I didn't buy into them, nor was I the slightest bit surprised. The point is that like most theories about cryptocurrency value that originate with cryptocurrency proponents, they have been shown to be wrong when exposed to the real world.

To turn it back on you - I'm not sure why you're upset that a central bank currency is being manipulated, that's entirely the point of such a system, to allow manipulation by steering committees to attempt to smooth out the bumps and judders in the economy and keep things on an even keel. It's a good thing!

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#213

Post by TheAlchemist »

bluelightning2k wrote: post #2

If I read it correctly it's more like a 1.8 bn hole. They are counting 600m of their own token, which already had only 170m or whatever of market cap, which presumably now is absolutely worthless. I don't mean worthless in a conceptual sense like all crypto, but this specific brand of made up money is based on the trust of a bankrupt lender. Nobody is buying that and counting it as 600m of asset is absurd. It's like…

I read it as a 5.5 bn hole !

Who in his right mind puts 'Other' with a 270 millions $ figure next to it ?

It reads like Tether attestations. It's pretty amazing (or rather depressing) that Mashinsky is still not in jail. Hopefully, this will open the eyes of some crypto naive fans.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#214

Post by Gigachad »

trixie_ wrote: post #177
Nursie wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m confused what the alternative is. For years it has been claimed that cryptocurrency represented a great hedge against traditional assets and investments in the case of a downturn. Like many other claims made about the utility of cryptocurrency, this too has been shown not to be the case.

Like stocks, don't confuse short term volatility with long term performance. The fed is expert at manipulating short term valuations, but their manipulations only hold for so long before they have to lower or raise rates again.

Feels like all the crypto marketing has been saying you should get crypto to avoid government manipulation. And yet the government manipulation is just as effective.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#215

Post by Gigachad »

josh2600 wrote: post #74
civilized wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently paused due to "extreme market conditions". What conditions exactly? BTC is down from all-time high, but still worth about twice as much as it was only two years ago. Ethereum is worth over 4x as much. Is a two-year average appreciation rate of 40-100% per year so witheringly horrible that the Celsius business model couldn't survive it? Did crypto have to basically 2x every year without fail for Celsius to s…

Celsius told their customers they were accruing Bitcoin and then Celsius didn’t buy the Bitcoin to deposit into their accounts, instead using the money to buy their CEL token that their ceo was dumping on exchange. Their business model was fine. What wasn’t fine was not following it. Abra, Nexo, Gemini, and lots of other companies are business as usual with the same model right now.

Why are the people behind these companies not in jail?

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#216

Post by kelseyfrog »

msbarnett wrote: post #187
kelseyfrog wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockchain solves it by making it so that all that goes away. In return if something fucks it up...well look at every crypto project that has ever crashed. I'm not being glib. That's the solution.

How on earth do you imagine a blockchain makes customer support go away?

There's nothing to support. The block chains immutability means no takebacks. The phone line can just have a message on repeat "Sorry, nothing can be done. The Blockchain is the source of truth." Customers can then just hang up knowing that it's the real world that is wrong and not a thing on chain. This is blockchain realism at its finest.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#217

Post by loeg »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #207
loeg wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Global energy crisis?

Checked your electricity bill lately? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-07/electric-...

> Checked your electricity bill lately?

My rates are 11-13 cents per kWh, the same as they’ve been for years. Our power is mostly hydro, with smaller amounts coming from nuclear and wind.

So no, that pithy question isn't particularly useful.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#218

Post by trixie_ »

Nursie wrote: post #212
trixie_ wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many theories about everything. Sorry the ones you bought into didn’t work out. Most of us aren’t surprised that when the dollar is manipulated that other asset classes’ dollar values change as well.

I didn't buy into them, nor was I the slightest bit surprised. The point is that like most theories about cryptocurrency value that originate with cryptocurrency proponents, they have been shown to be wrong when exposed to the real world. To turn it back on you - I'm not sure why you're upset that a central bank currency is being manipulated, that's entirely the point of such a system, to allow manipulation by steeri…

I'm not upset either. The dollar is a stable because of manipulation though unfortunately over the long term it does lose value. The cost of stability. Crypto on the other hand I do expect to go up over the long term while being short term volatile. Let's check back in five years and see if that's the case.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#219

Post by blobbers »

Hayvok wrote: post #25
dwater wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Celsius was backed by the full faith and credit of the US economy and war machine then those Celsius Bucks would probably still have value.

Agreed. “The government does it, why can’t we?” is just being deliberately naive. In the hands of the U.S. government it’s monetary policy - in mine it’s literally a scam. There’s a fascinating lesson and wake-call in monetary theory and philosophy somewhere here for us, but I’m not sure anybody wants to learn it.

That's what I meant by different scale; not in terms of total valuation. Their celsius bucks clearly do not carry the backing of taxation, land, government, or military.

I believe Celsius was lending out staked crypto and paying in their Celsius tokens as a form of "interest" though its unclear what if anything was backing the Celsius token (or if new tokens were simply minted).

The leant stake crypto paid interest and they then used 20% of the returns to fund their R&D and 80% to pay back stake owners. It seems if you accepted Celsius tokens rather than other denominations the payout would be higher.

It's not clear what caused their bankruptcy though; I can only imagine that they had counterparty risk in the people they had leant their tokens to.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#220

Post by blobbers »

darkmarmot wrote: post #114
323 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't buy armed tanks as a private company. That's a sovereign privilege.

You're right. You have to build them in secret like Cobra Command!

I appreciate that my initial comment somehow led to this comment.

Did Cobra Command pay in crypto? (and if so, which coin did it use?)

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