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Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

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Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#331

Post by xg15 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #329
xg15 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that sort of ironic because Unity's very own press release, in which they announced this merger was stuffed with some of the most vapid and nonsensical PR bullshit phrases I have ever seen. As in, they couldn't even get out a straight line about what ironSource's actual product is.

What exactly is Ironic? To be clear, I was making a comment and speculating on the publics attraction to blunt language. It seems like you are agreeing with me - you are sick of vapid and nonsensical PR bullshit. I don't think anyone is in favor of the PR bullshit, except the people who hide behind it. Wouldn't you prefer something more direct?

I guess so. My point was that neither Unity nor John Riccitiello can take credit for being particular direct in this whole affair - they produced the exact same vapid PR phrases just one submission earlier.

Also, what another poster said still applies: "blunt" language may appear to be more honest, but it really isn't. You can lie or misrepresent while being blunt just as well as with twisted PR phrases.

E.g., maybe it's John's deep belief that game devs should build their games around monetization from the start and so he made the merger to empower his users to do that - or maybe, he made the merger because it was a lucrative business decision for Unity and his "blunt advice" is just him trying to sell that move to his userbase.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#332

Post by mulmen »

dylan604 wrote: post #328
mulmen wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Modern arcades even survive by selling alcohol as a 1-2 punch. But now we are talking about addiction in general, not gambling specifically.

Not sure why that matters to be honest. Gambling is a form of addiction. GaveDevs are tapping into that rush. That's how it breaks down for me. It may not be an illegal/scheduled substance that they are pushing, but they are pushing a product specifically made to trigger addictive behavior. It's no different than social media algorithms in my book either. They all are designing their product to be consumed by an addi…

It matters because gambling specifically is regulated differently than general behaviors that might be addictive. There are more bars in the world than casinos. As I already outlined arcades specifically exist in their current form because they were re-classified as containing games of skill, not chance.

The difference matters a lot to someone who owns a bar or arcade or frequents one.

Further, conflating the meaning of words in general is just not a useful approach to learning or building consensus. Words have meaning. By respecting the meaning of words we can convey complex ideas with simple language.

Saying alcoholics are basically gamblers because "what's the difference" is about as useful (read: not) as arguing that FAANG should be broken up because "monopoly". The words matter and when you use the wrong ones the merit of your argument can be easily dismissed on the semantics. It's just not persuasive.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#333

Post by cartoonfoxes »

twoquestions wrote: post #237
morley wrote: post #25

The full quote for context: > Ferrari and some of the other high-end car manufacturers still use clay and carving knives. It’s a very small portion of the gaming industry that works that way, and some of these people are my favourite people in the world to fight with – they’re the most beautiful and pure, brilliant people. They’re also some of the biggest fucking idiots. Their CEO is certainly not calling everyone an…

Why should Ferrari move on to something other than clay and carving knives? I really can't see a render on a computer screen of any size giving you the same visceral understanding of how a car looks walking up to it and moving around it, which is absolutely critical for a premium product like that. Maybe a VR rig might be useful in prototyping, I don't know. That comment makes him look even more like a short-sighted…

It does, or ignorant at the least. All the auto manufacturers use clay, not just for Italian sportscars.

Automotive technical surfacing in CAD is stupid hard, and is a waste of time for the design staff. The clay models are easier to work with in every sense - easier to change, easier to refine, easier to show and discuss, etc. Designers can apply reflective film to the clay which shows reflections much as the finished product would, and can even be painted. The final surfaces are reverse-engineered from scans taken from those clay models.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#334

Post by altruios »

Go go Godot! ...and gamemaker studio, unreal, and a host of other's that don't do this monetization through ads...

unity was nice while it lasted... time to let it die.

only you can prevent advertising - by not putting ads in games (note to game devs: don't be evil, don't just follow orders from your boss either if those orders are evil).

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#335

Post by dylan604 »

mulmen wrote: post #332
dylan604 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why that matters to be honest. Gambling is a form of addiction. GaveDevs are tapping into that rush. That's how it breaks down for me. It may not be an illegal/scheduled substance that they are pushing, but they are pushing a product specifically made to trigger addictive behavior. It's no different than social media algorithms in my book either. They all are designing their product to be consumed by an addi…

It matters because gambling specifically is regulated differently than general behaviors that might be addictive. There are more bars in the world than casinos. As I already outlined arcades specifically exist in their current form because they were re-classified as containing games of skill, not chance. The difference matters a lot to someone who owns a bar or arcade or frequents one. Further, conflating the meaning…

I don't know where you're trying to take this, but it's not in a direction I'm going.

I never equated alcoholic are gamblers. I said they are forms of addiction. I'm beating the drum that some game devs are targeting addicts. That's the direction I will continue this conversation as. Where ever you're going with I will no longer follow

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#336

Post by woojoo666 »

dang wrote: post #220

Url changed from https://mobilegamer.biz/devs-not-baking-monetisation-into-th... , which points to this. Submitters: " Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Should the title be changed too?

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#337

Post by 93po »

bob1029 wrote: post #72

Focus on monetization/profit as the first priority in a creative effort is the world's biggest flashing neon sign for shitty leadership. Making a AAA video game is a gigantic gamble no matter how you slice it. Trying to hedge this gamble up front with micro transactions will result in vicious design cycles that further increase the effective risk profile of the project to your business. This is all a matter of higher…

If these people only care about money, I don't understand why they don't go into some other business. Take your bunches of money and go make a real estate investment firm or something.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#338

Post by ncr100 »

OskarS wrote: post #52
morley wrote: post #25

The full quote for context: > Ferrari and some of the other high-end car manufacturers still use clay and carving knives. It’s a very small portion of the gaming industry that works that way, and some of these people are my favourite people in the world to fight with – they’re the most beautiful and pure, brilliant people. They’re also some of the biggest fucking idiots. Their CEO is certainly not calling everyone an…

I don't think the full context does him any favors. The way he talks of gamedevs that are not engaging in predatory behaviour ("beautiful and pure, brilliant people") is incredibly condescending. Like, "yes children, once you grow up you'll realize how foolish your idealism has been and you'll stuff your game full of gems you can overpay for!". These are his customers he's talking about. And later talking about "comp…

Unusual!

He's been there for 10 years, made $1b, could have retired before he started ... and it's unusual that those SO POINTEDLY cruel words are being used by him, based upon my 6 years of experience listening to / occasionally talking with him while I was at Unity.

It appears to be unkind, maniacal, transactional thinking in my perspective. It deserves clarification. Without clarification the impact is kind of an evil one: From a people sense, it divides people up, chides them if they are non-binary about monetization.

Pivoting to talking about himself in the next breath smells bad to me too, like a slightly muffled narcissism that excuses self-misbehavior.

And Marc Whitten cleans up / enables just after, which is common to see around narcissists: "To double down on John’s point, Unity has democratised creation [...]"

So to avoid the pathological dead-end of being considered a narcissist, he ought to restate this.

I am puzzled. I wildly guess he could be creating an "out" as CEO for himself. IDK what this is.

What would have been better messaging here? I'm not a C-level / executive and don't have a clue.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#339

Post by ncr100 »

twoquestions wrote: post #237
morley wrote: post #25

The full quote for context: > Ferrari and some of the other high-end car manufacturers still use clay and carving knives. It’s a very small portion of the gaming industry that works that way, and some of these people are my favourite people in the world to fight with – they’re the most beautiful and pure, brilliant people. They’re also some of the biggest fucking idiots. Their CEO is certainly not calling everyone an…

Why should Ferrari move on to something other than clay and carving knives? I really can't see a render on a computer screen of any size giving you the same visceral understanding of how a car looks walking up to it and moving around it, which is absolutely critical for a premium product like that. Maybe a VR rig might be useful in prototyping, I don't know. That comment makes him look even more like a short-sighted…

.. and it loses any Unity Ferrari business.

Is there positivity somewhere in this kind of talk, like will it somehow win Unity more business? I am not seeing it.

Re: Gamedevs not baking in monetization are “fucking idiots”, says Unity CEO

#340

Post by voxl »

ncr100 wrote: post #338
OskarS wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the full context does him any favors. The way he talks of gamedevs that are not engaging in predatory behaviour ("beautiful and pure, brilliant people") is incredibly condescending. Like, "yes children, once you grow up you'll realize how foolish your idealism has been and you'll stuff your game full of gems you can overpay for!". These are his customers he's talking about. And later talking about "comp…

Unusual! He's been there for 10 years, made $1b, could have retired before he started ... and it's unusual that those SO POINTEDLY cruel words are being used by him, based upon my 6 years of experience listening to / occasionally talking with him while I was at Unity. It appears to be unkind, maniacal, transactional thinking in my perspective. It deserves clarification. Without clarification the impact is kind of an…

It's an important life lesson for anyone to learn that money is not success. An artist who makes enough to live but doesn't produce works of art specifically to make money is a success. They have many things to teach you about your craft, though true you would be a fool to ask them how to get rich.

Money has diminishing returns on "success" if you define it in literally any other way than "accumulation of money" which only a narcissistic child would.

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