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Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

technollama.co.uk

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Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#61

Post by junofan »

FabHK wrote: post #55
dcolkitt wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the point, crypto is a coordination mechanism that in most cases serves as an alternative when you don't have effective and trustworthy centralized institutions. It's pretty clear that (in this case) European financial regulators did a good job coordinating an effective and efficient electronic money transmission system. But the whole world is not Sweden. Even in America, which is relatively first world wi…

Good analysis, and you are right. I think purely technical attempts to solve current political/social problems are doomed, while better institutions can and have been built. Now, what makes you think that the regulators in well-run countries will continue to accept this inefficient and unregulated money alternative full of scams? Crypto currencies could be banned to quite an extent (mining, on/off ramps, maybe even t…

It’s banned in China AFAIK and people seem to use it there all the time.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#62

Post by drdrek »

Saddest thing about Crypto even more than the energy cost is the human minds it consumed. I heard people saying that Crypto is what bright graduate students want to focus on and that just too bad.

If you want to finance the un-financed or create decentralized finance go into fintech, crypto is just a bad implementation of fintech... If you want to change the world go into Biotech or Energy tech.. the next thing to change humanity is probably a better battery not a better foreign exchange market...

And if you just want to get rich by taking money from fools I would recommend setting up an online casino, there are companies that sell white labeled platforms for online casinos and those extract money from poor people with 10th of the cost to the rest of humanity and takes way less effort to set up!

First result in google, not an endorsement [1] https://www.softswiss.com/white-label-solution/

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#63

Post by masswerk »

game-of-throws wrote: post #48
masswerk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding (1), the real statement here is, "many of us were there at the start of the Web, it was evident that it was going to change the world, and it was usable from the start." And it's mostly about the the Web (but you may include things like The Well, which were promising from the start.) The point is really about immediately apparent use. And, if you're going to date the Web back to the humble beginnings of ARP…

> it was evident that it was going to change the world That's easy to say in hindsight, but the utility of the internet was debated as hotly back then as the utility of cryptocurrency is today. > By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet’s impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine’s. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/paul-krugman-internets-eff...

It isn't so that the Web wouldn't have gone from boom to bust rather immediately (it really began to surface and become known to a broader public in around 1996 and about 4 years later, there was already the burst of the dot-com bubble), but it was immediately apparent that the Web still had use and that there were plenty of undeveloped use-cases. Not sure, if this applies to the crypto market, as well.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#64

Post by p4bl0 »

deepu256 wrote: post #54
blueflow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These properties aren't unique, they can be achieved using regular asymmetric cryptography. For like, 45 years now.

Ok, then show me a credible 3rd Party where I can store my ownership data apart from Government. (Most corporations which currently store my data proved that they cannot be trusted and they only look after their shareholders. Not users.)

> show me a credible 3rd Party where I can store my ownership data apart from Government

Your "ownership data" does not have any intrinsic value. It only has value because an external authority (your Government's justice institutions) is able to enforce it.

Writing something on a blockchain has no magical effect. You cannot remove necessary third-parties like that.

> Most corporations which currently store my data proved that they cannot be trusted and they only look after their shareholders. Not users.

True, but unrelated.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#65

Post by nprateem »

p4bl0 wrote: post #34
deepu256 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility" Yes. FOR NOW. But public decentralised blockchains have interesting properties (enabling ownership , Liquidity , composability) and lots of smart people are trying to use those properties to build interesting apps. These apps are not there yet. I am optimistic that some good apps will be launched in nex…

The only thing a blockchain can do is a cryptocurrency. The cryptocurrency is the only application that works because transactions are performative writings on the blockchain: they define truth. Once it is written on a blockchain that Alice has transferred X tokens to Bob, it instantly becomes a fact by definition, so you can trust what is written on the blockchain. In any other application, what's written on the blo…

Particl has created a decentralised anonymous marketplace that uses a smart contract to provide escrow between two untrusted parties.

There are bound to be other possible applications. Writing off an entire new tech because you can't think of them is just narrow minded and silly.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#66

Post by kerng »

pavlov wrote: post #22
axg11 wrote: post #13

I live in Canada and recently invested a small amount in a startup via AngelList RUV. There were two funding options: (1) wire transfer, (2) transfer USDC via Ethereum network. One of these options is cheaper, faster, and more flexible than the other. Crypto has long been criticized for being gambling and lacking utility. I think utility is finally trickling in, although currently in limited settings. If you look at…

Wire transfers in North America are literally 40 years behind the evolution of bank transfers in EU and UK. Sending money in Europe is free and increasingly often instantaneous 24/7. It will be very difficult for crypto to reach the level of convenience available on unified infrastructure created through sensible regulation. Lacking that, maybe Americans will have to keep settling for all these clunky, incompatible i…

Maybe it will be like with China and cedit card usage. China just skipped credit cards and does everything in phone. They were behind, now they are leading the pack. Countries embracing crypto could go similar route.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#67

Post by RandomWorker »

axg11 wrote: post #13

I live in Canada and recently invested a small amount in a startup via AngelList RUV. There were two funding options: (1) wire transfer, (2) transfer USDC via Ethereum network. One of these options is cheaper, faster, and more flexible than the other. Crypto has long been criticized for being gambling and lacking utility. I think utility is finally trickling in, although currently in limited settings. If you look at…

I haven’t used wire transfers in 10 years. Costs were around $30 for each $1000 at the time. I use wise.com, and it’s less than $3 per $1000. It’s gotten cheaper as well over time I’ve used the service. Not sure if they use crypto in the background but they certainly don’t advertise it.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#68

Post by AlexandrB »

deepu256 wrote: post #56
stephc_int13 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying that for quite some time now, but I don't see it. Why is it so difficult to find utility with this "tech"? As long are you are not a criminal, ownership and liquidity are not huge pain, what is the real, tangible benefit of decentralized banking? I am not convinced that monetary transactions should be above the Law, and for them to be lawful they have to be centrally regulated in some ways.

"As long are you are not a criminal, ownership and liquidity are not huge pain, what is the real, tangible benefit of decentralized banking?" Capital formation for any common purpose without trusting 3rd parties. As an example -> there are some NFT vault DAOs where strangers pool together to purchase NFTs that are too costly. People Vote on proposals regarding which NFT to acquire and when.

This value of this kind of thing depends on NFTs having value, which I would dispute. As soon as a DAO tries to buy anything in meatspace (a house, a painting, a book), you're back to an oracle problem where someone has to be trusted with the custody or upkeep of the physical item and no amount of DAO votes can force them to do something they don't want to do.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#70

Post by sdfhdhjdw3 »

pavlov wrote: post #22
axg11 wrote: post #13

I live in Canada and recently invested a small amount in a startup via AngelList RUV. There were two funding options: (1) wire transfer, (2) transfer USDC via Ethereum network. One of these options is cheaper, faster, and more flexible than the other. Crypto has long been criticized for being gambling and lacking utility. I think utility is finally trickling in, although currently in limited settings. If you look at…

Wire transfers in North America are literally 40 years behind the evolution of bank transfers in EU and UK. Sending money in Europe is free and increasingly often instantaneous 24/7. It will be very difficult for crypto to reach the level of convenience available on unified infrastructure created through sensible regulation. Lacking that, maybe Americans will have to keep settling for all these clunky, incompatible i…

Sending money in the UK is faster than it takes me to open the app on the phone to confirm it went thru.
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