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Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

technollama.co.uk

11–20 of 167 posts

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#11

This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility. At some point value and utility always converge. A good heuristic to predict the value of something: would you get them if they were free of charge? The only difficult thing is to predict when the convergence occurs. The asymptotic value of Bitcoin is $0.

"This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility"

Yes. FOR NOW. But public decentralised blockchains have interesting properties (enabling ownership , Liquidity , composability) and lots of smart people are trying to use those properties to build interesting apps.

These apps are not there yet. I am optimistic that some good apps will be launched in next few years that make use of those unique properties enabled by decentralised public blockchains.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#12
post #5

Bitcoin is absolute garbage and in theory any critique is good, but it bothers me that half of the points in this article aren't even internally logically consistent: > “Blockchain is just like the early internet”. No, it isn’t. Satoshi Nakamoto’s paper was published in October 2008 ... . Nothing about the original statement is predicated on the age of the tech. Even if it did, I don't see what modern tech corps have…

The internet didn't really take off until the web, but once the web was there it completely exploded from there on out. Comparing to the web makes bitcoin look pathetic scratching around for a problem for its solution over a decade later.

If you're all about Second layer scaling, why not just use existing second layers like VISA? If you're transacting via a trusted second layer to provide scaling, you might as well have that as a layer over the dollar, or gold, or other stable asset.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#13
I live in Canada and recently invested a small amount in a startup via AngelList RUV. There were two funding options: (1) wire transfer, (2) transfer USDC via Ethereum network. One of these options is cheaper, faster, and more flexible than the other.

Crypto has long been criticized for being gambling and lacking utility. I think utility is finally trickling in, although currently in limited settings. If you look at _all_ of crypto from afar, there is a lot of noise and bullshit. If you zoom into the right applications, there are use cases that are gaining product market fit.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#14
post #9
post #5

Bitcoin is absolute garbage and in theory any critique is good, but it bothers me that half of the points in this article aren't even internally logically consistent: > “Blockchain is just like the early internet”. No, it isn’t. Satoshi Nakamoto’s paper was published in October 2008 ... . Nothing about the original statement is predicated on the age of the tech. Even if it did, I don't see what modern tech corps have…

Crypto is basically gambling, and gambling is alive and well. This is why I don't see crypto dying anytime soon. It will die when a better gamble comes along.

Crypto in its current form is worse than gambling.

With gambling, unless it's illegally rigged, you know your expected value will be say $0.90 for every $1 you put in.

However, in return, there is a possibility that you may have a one in million chance of getting back $100 for the $1 you put in.

Crypto, on the other hand, is a Ponzi scheme. It has no internal value and the current owners of crypto are paid entirely through the money brought in by the future owners of crypto.

Now, to be completely fair, I don't think the majority of crypto backers perceive it as a Ponzi scheme. There were many people working in the space (maybe even the overwhelming majority, although that's unlikely to be true anymore), who actually believed that Bitcoin had real value because it could become a real currency. Similarly, there are people who actually believe that Smart Contracts, and NFTs are actual useful technologies.

The problem, however, is that

(a) none of those technologies have panned out, possibly because blockchain simply does not solve the problems people actually face...it solves the problem of "What if the entity who owns the database we are recording our transactions in is unreliable". In practice, this does not seem to be a major problem at all, and further, blockchain appears to be a terrible way to solve this problem.

(b) Even if the technologies are useful, the limited tokens and the fact that they are largely hoarded by early adopters, simply serves to enrich those early adopters, which drastically reduces the utility of any crypto based technologies for future users, the ones who are actually using the technology. Crypto tokens are an implicit tax on technology. It would be like if Google was invented, but to use Google you necessarily had to pay $0.10 every search, but that cost is ridiculously dynamic, often jumping up to $1/search as well. Google would never take off and it would impose an insane tax on everyone else, and society as a whole.

The latter is why crypto in its current form isn't just a successful/unsuccessful tech, its an actively society damaging technology.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#15
post #5

Bitcoin is absolute garbage and in theory any critique is good, but it bothers me that half of the points in this article aren't even internally logically consistent: > “Blockchain is just like the early internet”. No, it isn’t. Satoshi Nakamoto’s paper was published in October 2008 ... . Nothing about the original statement is predicated on the age of the tech. Even if it did, I don't see what modern tech corps have…

Regarding (1), the real statement here is, "many of us were there at the start of the Web, it was evident that it was going to change the world, and it was usable from the start." And it's mostly about the the Web (but you may include things like The Well, which were promising from the start.) The point is really about immediately apparent use. And, if you're going to date the Web back to the humble beginnings of ARPANET in the early 1970s, you've to include hashes published in the NYT classifieds in the 1970s/1980s for crypto, as well.

Regarding (2), why not have a functional implementation right from the beginning? (Analogously, why have a really bad OS fixed by the application layer?)

The point in (3) is really about availability and value in times of crisis. Gold is already mined, as you hold it.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#16
post #5

Bitcoin is absolute garbage and in theory any critique is good, but it bothers me that half of the points in this article aren't even internally logically consistent: > “Blockchain is just like the early internet”. No, it isn’t. Satoshi Nakamoto’s paper was published in October 2008 ... . Nothing about the original statement is predicated on the age of the tech. Even if it did, I don't see what modern tech corps have…

> Even if it did, I don't see what modern tech corps have to do with anything - they didn't build the internet. Also, on age, the early internet dates back to the 60s and was still considered "early" 30+ years later.

I think the tech companies are relevant because they pivoted to find useful applications on top of that basic infrastructure, which the hundreds of blockchain companies have failed to do. AOL made millions even even people were held up by dialup and other limitations, for example, because things like chat were popular and low bandwidth.

The early internet comparisons are complicated by the history of computing – adoption was slow when computers filled a large room and cost millions, for example - but I think that has a similar story. Even when a PC cost as much as a car and you were looking at 300 bps modems on phone lines billed by the hour, people found things worth paying for and there were profitable companies with fairly large subscriber bases by the late 1970s. There were people who met online and were grandparents before smartphones became common!

In contrast, blockchains were globally available on day one with no constraints other than their design limitations. There’s no problem which you could point to like a telecom monopoly, the severe hardware limitations prior to the mid-90s, etc. which would keep popular usage low.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#17

This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility. At some point value and utility always converge. A good heuristic to predict the value of something: would you get them if they were free of charge? The only difficult thing is to predict when the convergence occurs. The asymptotic value of Bitcoin is $0.

"This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility" Yes. FOR NOW. But public decentralised blockchains have interesting properties (enabling ownership , Liquidity , composability) and lots of smart people are trying to use those properties to build interesting apps. These apps are not there yet. I am optimistic that some good apps will be launched in nex…

These properties aren't unique, they can be achieved using regular asymmetric cryptography. For like, 45 years now.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#18
post #13

I live in Canada and recently invested a small amount in a startup via AngelList RUV. There were two funding options: (1) wire transfer, (2) transfer USDC via Ethereum network. One of these options is cheaper, faster, and more flexible than the other. Crypto has long been criticized for being gambling and lacking utility. I think utility is finally trickling in, although currently in limited settings. If you look at…

There are probably large differences between countries here, but for me a wire transfer would clearly be the cheaper and easier option. They don't cost anything in fees. Speed is not that great, but usually good enough.

Another option that is often very convenient is the "Lastschrift", I can simply grant a company permission to withdraw money from my account. The protections for the customer are very strong with this, I can revert any withdrawal without any reason, so this is essentially no risk for me.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#19

This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility. At some point value and utility always converge. A good heuristic to predict the value of something: would you get them if they were free of charge? The only difficult thing is to predict when the convergence occurs. The asymptotic value of Bitcoin is $0.

"This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility" Yes. FOR NOW. But public decentralised blockchains have interesting properties (enabling ownership , Liquidity , composability) and lots of smart people are trying to use those properties to build interesting apps. These apps are not there yet. I am optimistic that some good apps will be launched in nex…

People have been saying that for quite some time now, but I don't see it.

Why is it so difficult to find utility with this "tech"?

As long are you are not a criminal, ownership and liquidity are not huge pain, what is the real, tangible benefit of decentralized banking?

I am not convinced that monetary transactions should be above the Law, and for them to be lawful they have to be centrally regulated in some ways.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#20
post #5

Bitcoin is absolute garbage and in theory any critique is good, but it bothers me that half of the points in this article aren't even internally logically consistent: > “Blockchain is just like the early internet”. No, it isn’t. Satoshi Nakamoto’s paper was published in October 2008 ... . Nothing about the original statement is predicated on the age of the tech. Even if it did, I don't see what modern tech corps have…

The internet didn't really take off until the web, but once the web was there it completely exploded from there on out. Comparing to the web makes bitcoin look pathetic scratching around for a problem for its solution over a decade later. If you're all about Second layer scaling, why not just use existing second layers like VISA? If you're transacting via a trusted second layer to provide scaling, you might as well h…

The web is the wrong analogy/comparison for Bitcoin. Bitcoin was never designed or intended to be anything like the web. It was designed to be a money and payments system, no more no less. If you must compare it to anything, compare it to dollars, euro, yen, gold coins, etc.

You may be thinking of Ethereum and any other “crypto” claiming to be “Web 3”, where they want to store and run entire websites on their distributed database. But that’s not Bitcoin.

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